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russian armor

Jackson needs a slight buff

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11 Jan 2015, 03:11 AM
#41
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
Alright Im just throwing an idea out there... how about we buff P4's armor just a wee bit and increase it's MP cost to like 360. And give Stug more HP, no nerf.

This way, if Jackson does get it's buff to pen at a cost of dmg, it will remain effective vs all Ostheer T3 but more viable vs OKW, and Ostheer T3 will remain relatively equally effective as it is now vs USF/Jackson, but now slightly better vs. everything else.

Edit: also, make the StuG a pure tank destroyer. 2 dual purpose tanks in the same tier doesnt make any sense, and the other vehicle is pure anti inf.
11 Jan 2015, 04:02 AM
#42
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

Alright Im just throwing an idea out there... how about we buff P4's armor just a wee bit and increase it's MP cost to like 360. And give Stug more HP, no nerf.

This way, if Jackson does get it's buff to pen at a cost of dmg, it will remain effective vs all Ostheer T3 but more viable vs OKW, and Ostheer T3 will remain relatively equally effective as it is now vs USF/Jackson, but now slightly better vs. everything else.

Edit: also, make the StuG a pure tank destroyer. 2 dual purpose tanks in the same tier doesnt make any sense, and the other vehicle is pure anti inf.
Because then it will be impossible for shermans and t34s to take them on. As well as impact already suffering allied infantry at from doing anything.
11 Jan 2015, 05:00 AM
#43
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

If your going to buff the Jacksons pen you need to nerf it's damage, it already rips apart Ostheer T3, buffing them would make it even fucking worse.
11 Jan 2015, 06:02 AM
#44
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

Higher pen / lower damage would be greatly preferred to be honest, so the Jackson didn't shut down T3 and it was more effective against heavies, which is what you actually usually build them for.
11 Jan 2015, 07:05 AM
#45
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

give us pershing.

But, u must have all tiers unlocked to use


As long as building pershing locks out jackson i'm good.Pershing meatshield in front with jackson kiting from back is OP.
11 Jan 2015, 07:08 AM
#46
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Alright Im just throwing an idea out there... how about we buff P4's armor just a wee bit and increase it's MP cost to like 360. And give Stug more HP, no nerf.

This way, if Jackson does get it's buff to pen at a cost of dmg, it will remain effective vs all Ostheer T3 but more viable vs OKW, and Ostheer T3 will remain relatively equally effective as it is now vs USF/Jackson, but now slightly better vs. everything else.

Edit: also, make the StuG a pure tank destroyer. 2 dual purpose tanks in the same tier doesnt make any sense, and the other vehicle is pure anti inf.


Will change nothing.U buffed p4 armor'a bit' but also buffed jackson penetration-cancelled each other out and made jackson the same old 3 shotter it always was ,just more powerful at same price.
11 Jan 2015, 07:21 AM
#47
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


As long as building pershing locks out jackson i'm good.Pershing meatshield in front with jackson kiting from back is OP.


U want KT?

As long as building pershing locks out Panther i'm good. KT meatshield in front with Panther's kiting from back is OP.
11 Jan 2015, 08:17 AM
#48
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026



As long as building pershing locks out jackson i'm good.Pershing meatshield in front with jackson kiting from back is OP.


Almost as unstoppable as jacksons kiting from behind an IS2. Except that Axis still somehow dominate team games despite this. Or SU85s behind an IS2 in a 1v1, which we already have. Or Jagdpanzers / panthers behind a KT in team game modes. Or Panthers with tigers.

It is not implicitly unbalanced to have both an effective TD and a meat shield tank in the same faction. In fact it's already in the game all over the place. USF simply lacks a heavy, other factions don't. It's not implicitly unbalanced to add one. It depends on implementation.
11 Jan 2015, 09:44 AM
#49
avatar of Kitahara

Posts: 96

Edit: Wrong thread sorry.

Up penetration lower damage and lower reload a bit sounds reasonable to me.
11 Jan 2015, 11:23 AM
#50
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705



U want KT?

As long as building pershing locks out Panther i'm good. KT meatshield in front with Panther's kiting from back is OP.


Panther's don't have 60 range and 240 dmg.And KT plus panther is too costly to have.Jackson at 125 fuel is easy with pershing.
11 Jan 2015, 11:24 AM
#51
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705



Almost as unstoppable as jacksons kiting from behind an IS2. Except that Axis still somehow dominate team games despite this. Or SU85s behind an IS2 in a 1v1, which we already have. Or Jagdpanzers / panthers behind a KT in team game modes. Or Panthers with tigers.

It is not implicitly unbalanced to have both an effective TD and a meat shield tank in the same faction. In fact it's already in the game all over the place. USF simply lacks a heavy, other factions don't. It's not implicitly unbalanced to add one. It depends on implementation.


Thats team games where resources allow fielding of multiple panthers.In low levelk games it would be end.
11 Jan 2015, 11:49 AM
#52
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Panther's don't have 60 range and 240 dmg.And KT plus panther is too costly to have.Jackson at 125 fuel is easy with pershing.


King Tiger + Jadgpanzer
Sturmtiger + Jadgpanzer
Panther + Jadgpanzer
Panther + Jadgtiger
Panther + Elephnat
Tiger + Panther

Everything within 1 faction so why USF can get Pershing and Jackson?

You have 240dmg and 60 range but no armor, low hp, medium penetration.
On the other hand you hvae 160dmg, 60 trange, great armor and very good penetration (Jadgpanzer).
11 Jan 2015, 12:56 PM
#53
avatar of Rupert

Posts: 186

Last night Jacksons were penetrating my KT in the front...
11 Jan 2015, 13:10 PM
#54
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2015, 12:56 PMRupert
Last night Jacksons were penetrating my KT in the front...

Why wouldn't they? Why people act like panther/tiger/KT/ele/JT had some kind of black hole eating all shells going in frontally and are surprised when these get penned by AT?

There is 37% chance they will.

Such TD, much power.

11 Jan 2015, 13:42 PM
#55
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2015, 13:10 PMKatitof

Why wouldn't they? Why people act like panther/tiger/KT/ele/JT had some kind of black hole eating all shells going in frontally and are surprised when these get penned by AT?

There is 37% chance they will.

Such TD, much power.



Once in 1v1 my almost dead E8 bounced pak40 shell. It was only 1 bounce from my E8.
I was so surprised when this guy has complained about that bounce.
Like his Tigers were not bouncing 57mm and E8 all the time.
This is showing Axis players attitude "my tanks should have godmode, but yours can not bounce my shells" :lol:
11 Jan 2015, 13:46 PM
#56
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Increase pen and lower damage and fix pathfinding along with ultra blitz....I'm sick of all the bounces on heavies and panthers while they YOLOBlitz in and rape everything
11 Jan 2015, 13:52 PM
#57
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658

You have 240dmg and 60 range but no armor, low hp, medium penetration.
On the other hand you hvae 160dmg, 60 trange, great armor and very good penetration (Jadgpanzer).


10 more penetration at max range is "very good"?

The Jackson has lower health/armor, yes, but it wouldn't matter if there was a meatshield tank in front of it.

I think buffing the Jacksons' penetration and reducing damage to 160 would be the best option. It wouldn't annihilate Ostheer T3 that much anymore and became more reliable vs heavier armor.
11 Jan 2015, 14:00 PM
#58
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



10 more penetration at max range is "very good"?

The Jackson has lower health/armor, yes, but it wouldn't matter if there was a meatshield tank in front of it.

I think buffing the Jacksons' penetration and reducing damage to 160 would be the best option. It wouldn't annihilate Ostheer T3 that much anymore and became more reliable vs heavier armor.


Yes, it is very good.
Don't look at numbers. Look at armors that Jadgpanzer has to deal with and what armors Jackson has to.
11 Jan 2015, 14:36 PM
#59
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658



Yes, it is very good.
Don't look at numbers. Look at armors that Jadgpanzer has to deal with and what armors Jackson has to.


Well, they both have to deal with the same armor actually. Light/medium armor until heavy tanks arrive.

Unfortunately, Jacksons will have to fight heavy armor all the time whereas Jagdpanzers will only have to do so vs Soviets.
11 Jan 2015, 14:50 PM
#60
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Well, they both have to deal with the same armor actually. Light/medium armor until heavy tanks arrive.

Unfortunately, Jacksons will have to fight heavy armor all the time whereas Jagdpanzers will only have to do so vs Soviets.


And that's the point. Jackson will struggle against Tiger, Panther, Jadgtiger, King Tiger. Even Jadgpanzer eats Jackson.

What about Jadgpanzer? It has hard time only vs IS2 and ISU while it will penetrate at max range almost all USF vehicles. It has "only" 79% to penetrate E8 at max range.

Penetration value is similar, yes, but it's about enemy's units. Jadgpanzer is powerful vs everything.
Jackson is powerful only vs medium.
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