Panzer II Luchs
Posts: 3293
and 3... 2... 1...
Posts: 2470
the reason heavies are so good right now is because they're more forgiving, due to having higher hp and armour, and also easy to support. i don't think they're really balanced right now but i don't think flatout nerfing heavies is the solution. reducing rear armour is a very good start though.
Posts: 262
The truth has been spoken.
Except what he said was empirically false.
The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17
T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.
Not to mention that the luchs' peak comes at mid range, whereas the t70's is melee range.
This, combined with the fact that the luchs can take one more shot from an AT gun, shows that there is a slight imba in favor of the luchs when compared to other light tanks.
Numbers don't bullshit, people do.
Posts: 4928
The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17
T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.
Those values are not necessarily correct, they're calculated against vehicles and may not (I am unsure) take spread into account. The T-70 does 40 damage a hit and is very accurate when still, it generally kills a model every 2-4 shots when not moving. Against a Luchs the T-70 will win unless you're facing your rear armour to him.
Posts: 262
This isn't the most common of matchups and does nothing to nullify the point that the luchs can take one more hit from an at gun or medium tank (which is a far more common/relevant situation IMO).
I would gladly trade away t70 armor in favor of luchs hp. It's not like the T70 is exactly bouncing pak shots now anyways.
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Posts: 1637
Except what he said was empirically false.
The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17
T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.
Not to mention that the luchs' peak comes at mid range, whereas the t70's is melee range.
This, combined with the fact that the luchs can take one more shot from an AT gun, shows that there is a slight imba in favor of the luchs when compared to other light tanks.
Numbers don't bullshit, people do.
And people also forget all attributes. For example a T70 AOE near is 1.25 vs a Luchs at .5 So for all intents it's DPS will double with squads with more than on entity and blobs. That's not a small improvement over the luchs that more or less guarantees full damage to two entities at once.
Posts: 262
And people also forget all attributes. For example a T70 AOE near is 1.25 vs a Luchs at .5 So for all intents it's DPS will double with squads with more than on entity and blobs. That's not a small improvement over the luchs that more or less guarantees full damage to two entities at once.
Except no, it doesn't guarantee anything. You make a point to notate all attributes but cleverly seem to omit that The T-70 has a scatter angle of 7.5, compared to the luchs at 4.
If your argument is that the luchs is fine compared to the T-70 (even though it does less damage, has less of a chance to hit a target, has a smaller health pool, and cost more) I don't think the attributes are going to exactly back up your point.
Also, I am unsure, but does calculated dps not already take into account accuracy (scatter) modifiers??
Posts: 351
Posts: 186
Luchs is fine imo. If you believe luchs has great battlefield impact than compare it with M20 or M3A1 scout car with flamers.
Posts: 351
Under a realistic assumption that the allied player will have better map control if equally skilled, getting a luchs will delay the much needed panther for that ez8s and the like, ultimately hurting the OKW player if the Luchs investment does not pay off greatly. And if it gets destroyed by bad pathing or at nade, OKW is probably screwed.
Luchs is fine imo. If you believe luchs has great battlefield impact than compare it with M20 or M3A1 scout car with flamers.
That is a fair comparison but the m-20 needs a lot of room to wipe squads on retreat and the m3 is very squishy now. The luchs sets okw back in tech but it's extremely survivable for its dps level and cost. I wouldn't have much of an issue with the luchs at all if obers and vetted volks weren't a thing. Currently, especially as USF, it's pretty hard to put a counter on the field to all of those threats at the same time.
Posts: 2470
Posts: 24
I also agree stuart needs a dps buff aganist infantry. Both t70 and stuart could also use a hp buff but i'm not sure. Pak is nurf'd pretty hard. Also bear in mind luchs costs 50 OKW fuel. If we were to use every detail to strengthen our argument, since okw recieves 1/3 less fuel which means enemy recieves %50 more, you could say luchs costs 75 normal fuel which is huge. But it also comes from a cheaper tech building etc etc, you cant compare all of the costs associated with going one unit over another since there are many variables(like delaying other units). Also about the abilities i find t70s recon mode on vet 3 more useful than the stealth mode on luchs.
Oh and fusilier&rifleman at nades should go off faster. It will affect and limit luchs's impact.
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Pak is nurf'd pretty hard.
Wut? Only RoF was nerfed and its still most powerful at gun in game (of course except 43).
Posts: 1637
Except no, it doesn't guarantee anything. You make a point to notate all attributes but cleverly seem to omit that The T-70 has a scatter angle of 7.5, compared to the luchs at 4.
If your argument is that the luchs is fine compared to the T-70 (even though it does less damage, has less of a chance to hit a target, has a smaller health pool, and cost more) I don't think the attributes are going to exactly back up your point.
Also, I am unsure, but does calculated dps not already take into account accuracy (scatter) modifiers??
Yes scatter is included in the DPS value. So now take the T70 DPS value and double it with squads with more than one model. The performance of his the luchs in the AI department is fine. It is asymmetrically balanced vs the T70. The cost and HPs are not. The 20mm is a machine gun and the 45mm is a grenade launcher. Simple. More units should work like this.
Posts: 301
...but T70 can cap and recon which increases its utility quite a lot.
Sounds like...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA
Posts: 301
Panther swaps firepower for mobility.
Relic should buff Panther then.
3 years - same topics?
P2 is overperforming for it's cost. Why? Summ are MOBILITY, vision range, dps and health pool.Don't you think this as kinda OP?
I was playing with T70 a lot of games. It helps a lot to push back, gives you a nice counter to Obers and other elite infantry units. But in mid and late it's only a recon for ISU or KV2. But, this unit needs a LOT of attention and micro - and it can't run into enemy rear lines and get out. P2 can do it.
Posts: 1130
Relic should buff Panther then.
3 years - same topics?
P2 is overperforming for it's cost. Why? Summ are MOBILITY, vision range, dps and health pool.Don't you think this as kinda OP?
I was playing with T70 a lot of games. It helps a lot to push back, gives you a nice counter to Obers and other elite infantry units. But in mid and late it's only a recon for ISU or KV2. But, this unit needs a LOT of attention and micro - and it can't run into enemy rear lines and get out. P2 can do it.
Nope your wrong or biased. fuckups are not tolerated for either unit.
Posts: 1637
Sounds like...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA
I LOLd. So soooo true on how development works. I am sending this to my boss. Thanks Carloff.
Posts: 301
Nope your wrong or biased. fuckups are not tolerated for either unit.
Gosh... kids this days...so much hate.
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