Panzer II Luchs

just invised a string of posts (on page 3) because they were off-topic and of flammatory nature. though posts seem to have died down. i figured removing them to enhance Reading experience and prevent someone from further dragging thread off topic.

and 3... 2... 1...
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3 shermans vs a VI depends on a hell of a lot of factors. with no other AT sources the shermans will easily kill the tiger because they can circle it faster than the turret turns (every med and larger tank works this way). throw in other AT sources and yeah, it sucks for the shermans. throw the tiger in one of the narrow sections of lanzareth woods and make the shermans come front the front and suddenly they don't do shit.

the reason heavies are so good right now is because they're more forgiving, due to having higher hp and armour, and also easy to support. i don't think they're really balanced right now but i don't think flatout nerfing heavies is the solution. reducing rear armour is a very good start though.

The truth has been spoken.

Except what he said was empirically false.

The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17

T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.

Not to mention that the luchs' peak comes at mid range, whereas the t70's is melee range.


This, combined with the fact that the luchs can take one more shot from an AT gun, shows that there is a slight imba in favor of the luchs when compared to other light tanks.

Numbers don't bullshit, people do.

The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17

T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.

Those values are not necessarily correct, they're calculated against vehicles and may not (I am unsure) take spread into account. The T-70 does 40 damage a hit and is very accurate when still, it generally kills a model every 2-4 shots when not moving. Against a Luchs the T-70 will win unless you're facing your rear armour to him.

The comparison between the t70/stuart and luchs are special cases. The reason the t70 would win is due to the luchs low penetration.

This isn't the most common of matchups and does nothing to nullify the point that the luchs can take one more hit from an at gun or medium tank (which is a far more common/relevant situation IMO).

I would gladly trade away t70 armor in favor of luchs hp. It's not like the T70 is exactly bouncing pak shots now anyways.

They're pretty good at dealing with infantry, and at 50 fuel they're actually cheaper than a T-70 and stronger armor wise. However it makes sense since the OKW have a slightly crippled economy fuel wise. I feel some good mine placements/early anticipation of oncoming luch will help. Plus it delays their ability to make a Panther. I feel the Luch is balanced for the most part for what it's worth. However, in certain situations where the OKW have a good fuel income luch spam late game supporting a Panther and a volk blob is a huge pain in the arse to deal with. I think if it was around 55 fuel it would help slightly in delaying the building of it/ability to spam it while still giving the OKW a chance to possibly build it if they so choose to.

Except what he said was empirically false.

The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17

T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.

Not to mention that the luchs' peak comes at mid range, whereas the t70's is melee range.


This, combined with the fact that the luchs can take one more shot from an AT gun, shows that there is a slight imba in favor of the luchs when compared to other light tanks.

Numbers don't bullshit, people do.

And people also forget all attributes. For example a T70 AOE near is 1.25 vs a Luchs at .5 So for all intents it's DPS will double with squads with more than on entity and blobs. That's not a small improvement over the luchs that more or less guarantees full damage to two entities at once.

And people also forget all attributes. For example a T70 AOE near is 1.25 vs a Luchs at .5 So for all intents it's DPS will double with squads with more than on entity and blobs. That's not a small improvement over the luchs that more or less guarantees full damage to two entities at once.

Except no, it doesn't guarantee anything. You make a point to notate all attributes but cleverly seem to omit that The T-70 has a scatter angle of 7.5, compared to the luchs at 4.

If your argument is that the luchs is fine compared to the T-70 (even though it does less damage, has less of a chance to hit a target, has a smaller health pool, and cost more) I don't think the attributes are going to exactly back up your point.

Also, I am unsure, but does calculated dps not already take into account accuracy (scatter) modifiers??

This is a good example of stats not providing a full picture. The t-70 and the luchs both perform very well against infantry, there's little room to dispute that. The luchs however, is a lot more survivable than either the t-70 or the Stewart. The Stewart barely even has room to be included in the discussion as it doesn't do anything well. I think Romeo put it best in his stream when he said "Now time to get this piece of shit out of here." He was playing mechanized and had just used his Stewart blind + captain + an at gun to take out a single puma, then recycled the stewart for better armor.

Under a realistic assumption that the allied player will have better map control if equally skilled, getting a luchs will delay the much needed panther for that ez8s and the like, ultimately hurting the OKW player if the Luchs investment does not pay off greatly. And if it gets destroyed by bad pathing or at nade, OKW is probably screwed.

Luchs is fine imo. If you believe luchs has great battlefield impact than compare it with M20 or M3A1 scout car with flamers.

Under a realistic assumption that the allied player will have better map control if equally skilled, getting a luchs will delay the much needed panther for that ez8s and the like, ultimately hurting the OKW player if the Luchs investment does not pay off greatly. And if it gets destroyed by bad pathing or at nade, OKW is probably screwed.

Luchs is fine imo. If you believe luchs has great battlefield impact than compare it with M20 or M3A1 scout car with flamers.

That is a fair comparison but the m-20 needs a lot of room to wipe squads on retreat and the m3 is very squishy now. The luchs sets okw back in tech but it's extremely survivable for its dps level and cost. I wouldn't have much of an issue with the luchs at all if obers and vetted volks weren't a thing. Currently, especially as USF, it's pretty hard to put a counter on the field to all of those threats at the same time.

another small problem that USF has is the long as time it takes for an AT RG to go off. i had a game today where i had two squads forced off before either of them actually shot the nade, despite being told to.

I havent read all of the posts but here's my 2 cents. People who say luchs does more damage than a t70 is right. Only if the infantry luchs shooting is out of cover and both are stationary. For infantry in cover, t70 does way better. And even in the open you can argue t70 does more. If the t70 is stationary it snipes a squadmember in every 1-2 shots and it fires VERY VERY fast. Seriously if it isnt max range and squad it is shooting at is not a vet 5 volks squad, it kills a model almost every shot.

I also agree stuart needs a dps buff aganist infantry. Both t70 and stuart could also use a hp buff but i'm not sure. Pak is nurf'd pretty hard. Also bear in mind luchs costs 50 OKW fuel. If we were to use every detail to strengthen our argument, since okw recieves 1/3 less fuel which means enemy recieves %50 more, you could say luchs costs 75 normal fuel which is huge. But it also comes from a cheaper tech building etc etc, you cant compare all of the costs associated with going one unit over another since there are many variables(like delaying other units). Also about the abilities i find t70s recon mode on vet 3 more useful than the stealth mode on luchs.

Oh and fusilier&rifleman at nades should go off faster. It will affect and limit luchs's impact.

Pak is nurf'd pretty hard.

Wut? Only RoF was nerfed and its still most powerful at gun in game (of course except 43).

Except no, it doesn't guarantee anything. You make a point to notate all attributes but cleverly seem to omit that The T-70 has a scatter angle of 7.5, compared to the luchs at 4.

If your argument is that the luchs is fine compared to the T-70 (even though it does less damage, has less of a chance to hit a target, has a smaller health pool, and cost more) I don't think the attributes are going to exactly back up your point.

Also, I am unsure, but does calculated dps not already take into account accuracy (scatter) modifiers??

Yes scatter is included in the DPS value. So now take the T70 DPS value and double it with squads with more than one model. The performance of his the luchs in the AI department is fine. It is asymmetrically balanced vs the T70. The cost and HPs are not. The 20mm is a machine gun and the 45mm is a grenade launcher. Simple. More units should work like this.

...but T70 can cap and recon which increases its utility quite a lot.

Sounds like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

Panther swaps firepower for mobility.

Relic should buff Panther then.

3 years - same topics?

P2 is overperforming for it's cost. Why? Summ are MOBILITY, vision range, dps and health pool.Don't you think this as kinda OP?

I was playing with T70 a lot of games. It helps a lot to push back, gives you a nice counter to Obers and other elite infantry units. But in mid and late it's only a recon for ISU or KV2. But, this unit needs a LOT of attention and micro - and it can't run into enemy rear lines and get out. P2 can do it.

Relic should buff Panther then.

3 years - same topics?

P2 is overperforming for it's cost. Why? Summ are MOBILITY, vision range, dps and health pool.Don't you think this as kinda OP?

I was playing with T70 a lot of games. It helps a lot to push back, gives you a nice counter to Obers and other elite infantry units. But in mid and late it's only a recon for ISU or KV2. But, this unit needs a LOT of attention and micro - and it can't run into enemy rear lines and get out. P2 can do it.

Nope your wrong or biased. fuckups are not tolerated for either unit.

Sounds like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

I LOLd. So soooo true on how development works. I am sending this to my boss. Thanks Carloff.

Nope your wrong or biased. fuckups are not tolerated for either unit.

Gosh... kids this days...so much hate.