The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank

How about removing panzershreck from volksgrenadiers and instead giving them Panzerbüchse 39 Anti-tank rifle as ammo upgrade?

Don't forget we are talking about '44 - '45 german infantry. The panzerbusche was dead and burried at that time.


Let's make the volks squad to have 4 members. Plain and simple. Ok, they have great AT, great vet, BUT they won't be that durable. What do you people think?

Don't forget we are talking about '44 - '45 german infantry. The panzerbusche was dead and burried at that time.


Let's make the volks squad to have 4 members. Plain and simple. Ok, they have great AT, great vet, BUT they won't be that durable. What do you people think?

please don't use that '44, '45 excuse anymore sigh... yes i would like the game to be realistic as well, but so many things already make zero sense.

+1

I could really see the panzerbuchse rifle working well for OKW. Particularly if volks were given faust. I would suggest that perhaps sturmpios should mirror PGrens and buy two shrecks for 120+ muni however. That would help consolidate their role as AT infantry and ensure that buying the shreck upgrade is a tactical choice instead of being automatic.

The only reason I don't want to see the shreck become a double upgrade is because I feel that it would drop far too easily. If we went with a double upgrade, the shreck should not be a droppable weapon, because losing that firepower would be a big loss to the OKW player.


@johnny, I think that the problem with making volks a 4-man squad is that they will overlap handily with grens. Each of their rifles will be buffed, but the decreased early game survivability will make them even worse early on than they can be now, and without a faust they will be chased down too easily by m3s and m20s.

just make it like in vCOH. Schrecks to sturmpios, volks get an mp40 upgrade available for like 40-60 munis, and at vet1 they get panzerfaust ability. maybe a slight buff also to the raketen aim time.

So panzerfaust ability to slow down light and medium vehicles, and raketen and sturms for damage.

The only reason I don't want to see the shreck become a double upgrade is because I feel that it would drop far too easily. If we went with a double upgrade, the shreck should not be a droppable weapon, because losing that firepower would be a big loss to the OKW player.

It's true that the shreck would drop easily but the same has always been true for Pgrens. I believe this is one of the reasons why Pgrens with shrecks have remained relatively balanced. The squad has excellent alpha but is somewhat of a high risk unit in return. I would have no problem with a double shreck upgrade also providing Sturmpios with the same reduced accuracy percentage as Pgrens to help boost their survivability so the units perform comparably. I realize loosing 60-120 muni worth of shrecks would be more devastating to the OKW than it would OST but in an OKW army with plenty of fausts and early AT rifles any shreck upgrade would be a calculated choice instead of a necessity.

Don't forget we are talking about '44 - '45 german infantry. The panzerbusche was dead and burried at that time.

It would not be unhistorical as this AT rifle was sometimes still used by Volksgrenadiers in '45.

Die Panzerbüchse 39 besaß nur eine äußerst geringe Durchschlagkraft und war gegen keine Panzerung mehr effektiv einsetzbar, trotzdem waren noch einige Panzerjagdkommandos der 340. Volksgrenadier Division Mitte März 1945 mit der Panzerbüchse 39 ausgestattet. Denkbar ist, dass die Panzerbüchse 39 durch eine aus Dänemark verlegte Kampfgruppe der 160. Reservedivision mit an den Brückenkopf gebracht wurde. Verschossen wurde die 7,92 mm SmK H Rs Patrone, die im Bestfall lediglich 25 mm Stahl zu durchschlagen vermochte, was den Anforderungen der Westfront 1945 in keiner Weise genügte. Die Existenz der Panzerbüchse 39 am 19. März 1945 bei Rottbitze und Windhagen ist durch in alliierte Gefangenschaft geratene Soldaten der 340. Volksgrenadier Division gesichert. Die Gefangenen gaben zu Protokoll, dass sie mit fünf Karabinern K98, drei Panzerbüchsen 39 und zehn Panzerfäusten 100 ausgestattet waren, niemand von ihnen war in der Verwendung der Panzerbüchse unterrichtet. Sie hatten den Befehl, über die Autobahn vordringende amerikanische Panzer aufhalten. Die Soldaten begaben sich ohne Kampfberührung in Gefangenschaft.

Translated by google:

The Panzerbüchse 39 had only a very low impact and had no armor against more effectively used, but some Panzerjagd commands the 340th Volksgrenadierdivision mid-March 1945, yet equipped with the 39 anti-tank rifle. It is conceivable that the anti-tank rifle was brought by a 39 moved from Denmark Kampfgruppe the 160th Reserve Division with the bridgehead. Was fired the 7.92 mm SmK H Rs cartridge only 25 mm steel was able to penetrate in the best case, which in 1945 met the requirements of the Western Front in any way. The existence of the anti-tank rifle 39 on March 19, 1945 by Rottbitze and wind Hagen is secured by fallen into Allied hands soldiers of the 340th Volksgrenadierdivision. The prisoners answered that they were equipped with five K98 rifles , three anti-tank 39 rifles and ten Panzerfaust 100, none of them has been advised in the use of anti-tank rifle. They were ordered to stop on the highway advancing American tanks. The soldiers went down without a fight touch in captivity.

Don't forget we are talking about '44 - '45 german infantry. The panzerbusche was dead and burried at that time.


Let's make the volks squad to have 4 members. Plain and simple. Ok, they have great AT, great vet, BUT they won't be that durable. What do you people think?

Not a bad idea, i vote for it.

And make Rak just a bit less durable the the US At-gun cause they can retreat.

Thanks.

Not a bad idea, i vote for it.

And make Rak just a bit less durable the the US At-gun cause they can retreat.

Thanks.

It's already less durable since it can get supress and the AT gun itself doesn't protect the crew as much as other atguns, if nothing at all.

i think the major logic flaw here is assuming that all factions should have equal bazooka/panzershrek options.

keep in mind that okw doesnt get a decent AT gun, it does ok, but in reality the only thing its good as is having a retreat function. those panzershreks are their basic way of dealing with tanks. Besides that their main option is a puma, then in the late game they can go for a panther.. So they really have like 1 infantry at option and 1 vehicle at option for most of the game.

when the ostheer puts panzershreks on panzergrenadiers, it turns that squad into bassicaly an anti tank team which is expensive to reinforce. they can still get kills but they'll lose out on fights consistently against infantry if they arent backed up by non at squads. IMO its better to get the pak unless its a very urban map.

bazookas have different factors going on for them. if you put them on a riflemen squad it doesnt impact the riflemen's squad as much as it would the smaller axis squads. though most people would opt to put them on rear echelon which are cheap and dont really have an infantry combat role anyway. On top of that USF gets atleast 1 bazooka squad for free essentialy (if you go LT, you get a free bazooka squad with your utility car, if you go captain your captain gets them). on top of that, their at gun.... is not all that bad. if you use its ability itll do some damage, and it has a pretty decent firing arc.

Asymmetrical balance means different factions have different means to deal with opponents, not weaker. This argument of yours is extremely popular within axis player lobby as they are the ones ending up with superior equipment, which isn't really justified enough by cost or performance difference.

Wehr shrecks cost 120mun, USF zookas too, its not asymmetrical balance, its bad balance.

I find your "asymmetrical balance" excuse only using in Allies' favour.

The main problem with allies is that they are harder to play. Players need more experience with them than to play the Axis.

In 3vs3 and 4vs4 game modes, people without decent allies experience are matched too frequently into games that are beyond their game experience. Too often, they make their team lose because they lack the skills or they drop in frustration, claiming Axis is OP.

That lead to a lot of frustration for both the player and his teammates.

Solution:
Tune up the matching system so matching rules for allies are stricter. It's better for every one that they wait a bit more for a suitable game that they being instantly pitched into a game that are beyond theirs gaming skill.

So use higher values (prestige level, Elo rank, etc) for matching them into team vs Axis.

It's better not to have a game or having a longer delay than to be matched with a experience lacking player instantly for team game.(In all modes)

The game will be more fun for everyone.

Thanks.

Let's make the volks squad to have 4 members. Plain and simple. Ok, they have great AT, great vet, BUT they won't be that durable. What do you people think?

Not a bad idea, i vote for it.

No it's a terrible idea.

Panzershreack is imbalanced.

I'm a simple man, all I want is for Conscripts, Penals and Guards to not suck

bazooka damage needs to be buffed from 80 to 100

i think the major logic flaw here is assuming that all factions should have equal bazooka/panzershrek options.

keep in mind that okw doesnt get a decent AT gun, it does ok, but in reality the only thing its good as is having a retreat function. those panzershreks are their basic way of dealing with tanks. Besides that their main option is a puma...

Switch King Tiger with doc Pz IV, give schreck to Stormpio, make MP40 upgrade for Volks (vet 1 faust), and there you go. Beautiful combined army and different than Puma mid-game AT.

I'm a simple man, all I want is for Conscripts, Penals and Guards to not suck

I heard someone saying something awesome.





Still waiting for a Commander with a theme and abilitys work with the lovely Penals... God damn relic and there somewhat small inventiveness and innovation on commander ideas...

I'm a simple man, all I want is for Conscripts, Penals and Guards to not suck

For Relic, that is a huge ask We can only pray....

bazooka damage needs to be buffed from 80 to 100

The damage is fine IMO, but the penetration...

The damage is fine IMO, but the penetration...

3 rockets to kill a CAR.
Not even armored car, just ordinary car.
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3 rockets to kill a CAR.
Not even armored car, just ordinary car.
Show Spoiler

It's not just any car it's a Volkswagen those things were built to last! Now Dodges are trash as we all know and explode when one sneezes on them....