Obersoldaten and stuff

Jump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 01:49 AMThe_rEd_bEar

This post is more about LMGs in General and stuff that makes this game piss me off.

1. Obersoladaten- I don't care how expensive it is, it is not ok to have a unit that completely negates infantry thats just bad design, seriously everything melts to its LMG even in green cover, we're talking about a unit that can fight HMG's head on. Its especially worst for Soviets then Americans because their core infantry is alot weaker and doesn't have any way to scale in to the mid/late game. Guards use to be ok against them then the dp was nerfed (lol) because we all know Guards use to be op, shocks are very situational against obers, even with smoke grenades you will still probably lose because chances are the ober squad isn't alone and/or its on a open ground giving the obers time to reposition and shred shocks. Snipers would be ok, but once again people these days just blob obers with another squad and with volks/pfusiliers and snipers are useless vs blobs. Tanks are supposedly their weakness, but thats not the case because shrek volks blobs and reketen werfers combined with low health pool and armor of allied tanks means that obers won't really be effected by armor. Americans its not so bad because rifle men are pretty good and bars are getting buffed and airborn with m1919 or riflemen with m1919 are pretty good vs obers, but it is still something that needs to be looked at.

1. I don't disagree with what you say here. But a lot of what you are saying comes from early game losses. If as sov you are losing early game, you just wont be able to deal with the mid/late game OKW blob. I don't disagree that it is a problem, I just disagree that obers should be nerfed. I think cons need to be buffed. I think cons need to be able to get vet 5, where vet4 and vet5 increase late game abilitys (EG HP and Defense). If this happens cons will be able to tank more and become a better shield/not such a MP drain.

2. LMG- even with the so called "nerf" lmgs are still king of the battlefield as they have been since march, Every faction except the soviets, has a non doc lmg so they get shafted in this department (lets face it no one is going to be cautious about guards with dp's, and they're doctrinal) has a good lmg, the mg42, m34, and the bar. So they pretty much get to attack move every where with little to no micro requirements, while soviets have to use cheesy gimicks like maxim spam, sniper abuse, and the isu152. If relic gave the soviets a decent all round infatry the scales well in the mid/late game people wouldn't have to deal with constant abuse and come to the forums and cry how op snipers and the isu 152 are. Its not fair or fun to have to micro infantry around all the time while your opponent can just mow you down with his lmgs.

2. Again I don't disagree, But I think your attributing late game strength to early game losses. As a sov play (or even USF with the new patch) if you are playing OST you know that he needs heavy MU early game (60 MU for healing, 60 for each LMG, 55 for 221 upgrade) if you take bad engagements early game or even if you trade evenly (as sov) you will lose. The OST player will be able to upgrade, and play a safe midgame to get to a super strong late game.

I would like to point out that some of this can be blamed on map balance, this game really needs to bring in some symmetry into the map pool. That's why semo is so popular, at least it is somewhat symmetric.

Jump back to quoted post29 Oct 2014, 20:49 PMHardworkingBulldozer

Obers are OK and a bit UP against paras to be honest. Having all 3 trucks converted as requirement could be a fair cahnge though.

Jump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:58 AMJohnnyB

Obers this time. What will be next? I'm just wondering...
I think that the most interest experiment would be taking people who constantly cry how OP are OKW units and let them make all the changes they want to the faction in order for it to be "balanced". Then, making them play just with OKW for 2 weeks. In case they loose in more than 50% of their matches, all changes will revert and they will STFU.

Jump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:58 AMJohnnyB

Obers this time. What will be next? I'm just wondering...
I think that the most interest experiment would be taking people who constantly cry how OP are OKW units and let them make all the changes they want to the faction in order for it to be "balanced". Then, making them play just with OKW for 2 weeks. In case they loose in more than 50% of their matches, all changes will revert and they will STFU.

Jump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:58 AMJohnnyB

Obers this time. What will be next? I'm just wondering...
I think that the most interest experiment would be taking people who constantly cry how OP are OKW units and let them make all the changes they want to the faction in order for it to be "balanced". Then, making them play just with OKW for 2 weeks. In case they loose in more than 50% of their matches, all changes will revert and they will STFU.

Jump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 01:49 AMThe_rEd_bEar

This post is more about LMGs in General and stuff that makes this game piss me off.

1. Obersoladaten- I don't care how expensive it is, it is not ok to have a unit that completely negates infantry thats just bad design, seriously everything melts to its LMG even in green cover, we're talking about a unit that can fight HMG's head on. Its especially worst for Soviets then Americans because their core infantry is alot weaker and doesn't have any way to scale in to the mid/late game. Guards use to be ok against them then the dp was nerfed (lol) because we all know Guards use to be op, shocks are very situational against obers, even with smoke grenades you will still probably lose because chances are the ober squad isn't alone and/or its on a open ground giving the obers time to reposition and shred shocks. Snipers would be ok, but once again people these days just blob obers with another squad and with volks/pfusiliers and snipers are useless vs blobs. Tanks are supposedly their weakness, but thats not the case because shrek volks blobs and reketen werfers combined with low health pool and armor of allied tanks means that obers won't really be effected by armor. Americans its not so bad because rifle men are pretty good and bars are getting buffed and airborn with m1919 or riflemen with m1919 are pretty good vs obers, but it is still something that needs to be looked at.

2. LMG- even with the so called "nerf" lmgs are still king of the battlefield as they have been since march, Every faction except the soviets, has a non doc lmg so they get shafted in this department (lets face it no one is going to be cautious about guards with dp's, and they're doctrinal) has a good lmg, the mg42, m34, and the bar. So they pretty much get to attack move every where with little to no micro requirements, while soviets have to use cheesy gimicks like maxim spam, sniper abuse, and the isu152. If relic gave the soviets a decent all round infatry the scales well in the mid/late game people wouldn't have to deal with constant abuse and come to the forums and cry how op snipers and the isu 152 are. Its not fair or fun to have to micro infantry around all the time while your opponent can just mow you down with his lmgs.



3. Teirs- In general the only faction that has a shitty tier design is the soviets( Agian), although i think ost t4 is still to expansive, but its espically bad for the soviets because it cost 120 fuel and 230 mp for t3 and t4 and soemthing like 120 seconds to build them. To make matters worst they all have lack luster units, the t34 has bad armor and health, its ROF was recently nerfed and it gets stomped by okw all of the time because of volks blobs and pumas (Puma is ridiculous by the way) against ost it not as bad, but its not worth using it against them ether, I can't even remember the last time I seen some one use it. The t70 is a good unit but comes to late, you might as well get a t34 for 30 more fuel, and the m5 haltrack is not worth it, the aa upgrade is decent but the unit it self just isnt worth it because it comes to late to, and delays a t34, so its in the same boat as the t70. t4 has the su76 which is just lol, the su85 has been consistently nerfed over the past year, while we seen the panther buffed recently and blitzkreig buffed as well, its time to give the su85 the buff its needs to remain competitive 120 fuel for a unit that has only at ability and its lacklust at that, it seems to like missing or just doesnt like to penetrate, the katyusha is a ok unit i seen it do ok in some games and awful in others.
t1 has snipers which are fine imo, because they are the only unit that kills something, penals are in a wierd spot I've seen people use them but they just aren't worth it they lack any long range dps and they dont have the armor of shocks to duke it out in close range with infantry, or any useful utility like at nades, penals should be buffed to be a long range unit. M3 is fine. In t2 I never liked the Maxmim design, even since closed beta i hated it, I want a area of denial HMG, but I guess its fine as it is currently, apart form it not retreating when ever a squad member dies, but that seems to be fixed in the beta. The soviet mortar is the worst mortar in the game its bad Rof and the accuracy doesn't seem to be any better than the ostheer mortar, speaking of the ostheer mortar, its ROF is way to high its as bad if not worst when a pak reaches vet3, the zis is the worst at gun in the game just because it gets an artillary barrage that not even that good, its suppose to be an at gun so why does it have some thing that fit its role? It wouldn't be so bad if the barrage was acutally good, The pak has stun rounds, 57mm has 70 range and ap rounds and the 43 has camo and can go in buildings, the zis? nothing not only that its rof is just bad and with the nerf to its vet 1 ability its a pain to use.



3. Cons LOL the king of kings, I'm going to dwell on this its been said time and time again, but I'll say this forcing players to play a faction with an infantry unit that cost 240mp and with 6 men that negates its so called " cheaper" myth that doesn't exist is bad faction design, they just end up bleeding you man power mid/late game because they don't do anything, they're just there to throw at nades at that point.


4. Commanders again this has been said time and time again, the commander system is bland and boring, I hate to say this but why would you dumb down the coh1 commander system? it was perfect, just building on top of it and improving it, not only that alot of the commanders are simply terrible and need a over haul. Another user whiteflash made a perfect example of how the coh2 commander system should've been I can't find it though.


5.Call ins- Soviets being the main offender of this because of their bad stock units, Just revert them back to how it was in beta, for example the t34/85 was unlocked at 8 cp and you had to build t3 and build them from that, its a simple solution to this problem and will help solve alot of the core problems the sovets have with there stock units.

Edit

4. magic- I forgot about this point as well, units like falls and JLI popping out of buildings has to go, I don't know who thought that was a good idea , but it has to stop.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2014, 10:16 AMOZtheWiZARD

Current commander system was designed around future DLC sales and it's not the first time a game suffers because of that.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2014, 12:05 PMMarcoRossolini

Not always, Elite troops most notably, other stuff such as Salvage doctrine, Rifle company and the B4 commander have exclusive stuff which you simply can't use unless you buy them.

I've been playing since a week after WFA came out and still haven't got a commander drop (or one I don't already own...)

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2014, 04:03 AMREforever

I did a bit of testing with the new patch, and I've found out that the Obersoldatens aren't the killing machines the Allied fanboys make them out to be. I played a few matches where I had a few Obersoldaten squads behind cover, and they were facing off against 3 rifles with BARS. Needless to say, the rifles defeated my Obersoldatens, so i'm very curious as to where these people get these delusions that Obersoldatens melt both cover and infantry. Granted, this is anecdotal evidence but it helps establish a clearer picture; the Obersoldatens aren't OP but rather UP so hopefully Relic will buff them next patch so OKW can be viable in a 2v2 setting.

The Obersoldatens were spared death this patch, but i'm very concerned that next patch, Relic will officially kill them and they won't be the best infantry in the game.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2014, 18:44 PMRetaliation

What veterancy were the squads at? Vet3 rifles can be competitive with fresh obers, but when the obers start piling up vet...

Jump back to quoted post29 Oct 2014, 00:55 AMREforever

The Germans were the most elite in WW2 so obviously the Obersoldaten should reflect that since CoH2 is supposed to be historically authentic.

Well I don't think that long range units with efficient DPS are necessarely a problem. The german factions design is to be more efficient at long range. Soviets for instance, have no such advantage but in compensation they have larger squads. I don't know, this seems logical to me.