Obersoldaten and stuff

This post is more about LMGs in General and stuff that makes this game piss me off.

1. Obersoladaten- I don't care how expensive it is, it is not ok to have a unit that completely negates infantry thats just bad design, seriously everything melts to its LMG even in green cover, we're talking about a unit that can fight HMG's head on. Its especially worst for Soviets then Americans because their core infantry is alot weaker and doesn't have any way to scale in to the mid/late game. Guards use to be ok against them then the dp was nerfed (lol) because we all know Guards use to be op, shocks are very situational against obers, even with smoke grenades you will still probably lose because chances are the ober squad isn't alone and/or its on a open ground giving the obers time to reposition and shred shocks. Snipers would be ok, but once again people these days just blob obers with another squad and with volks/pfusiliers and snipers are useless vs blobs. Tanks are supposedly their weakness, but thats not the case because shrek volks blobs and reketen werfers combined with low health pool and armor of allied tanks means that obers won't really be effected by armor. Americans its not so bad because rifle men are pretty good and bars are getting buffed and airborn with m1919 or riflemen with m1919 are pretty good vs obers, but it is still something that needs to be looked at.

2. LMG- even with the so called "nerf" lmgs are still king of the battlefield as they have been since march, Every faction except the soviets, has a non doc lmg so they get shafted in this department (lets face it no one is going to be cautious about guards with dp's, and they're doctrinal) has a good lmg, the mg42, m34, and the bar. So they pretty much get to attack move every where with little to no micro requirements, while soviets have to use cheesy gimicks like maxim spam, sniper abuse, and the isu152. If relic gave the soviets a decent all round infatry the scales well in the mid/late game people wouldn't have to deal with constant abuse and come to the forums and cry how op snipers and the isu 152 are. Its not fair or fun to have to micro infantry around all the time while your opponent can just mow you down with his lmgs.



3. Teirs- In general the only faction that has a shitty tier design is the soviets( Agian), although i think ost t4 is still to expansive, but its espically bad for the soviets because it cost 120 fuel and 230 mp for t3 and t4 and soemthing like 120 seconds to build them. To make matters worst they all have lack luster units, the t34 has bad armor and health, its ROF was recently nerfed and it gets stomped by okw all of the time because of volks blobs and pumas (Puma is ridiculous by the way) against ost it not as bad, but its not worth using it against them ether, I can't even remember the last time I seen some one use it. The t70 is a good unit but comes to late, you might as well get a t34 for 30 more fuel, and the m5 haltrack is not worth it, the aa upgrade is decent but the unit it self just isnt worth it because it comes to late to, and delays a t34, so its in the same boat as the t70. t4 has the su76 which is just lol, the su85 has been consistently nerfed over the past year, while we seen the panther buffed recently and blitzkreig buffed as well, its time to give the su85 the buff its needs to remain competitive 120 fuel for a unit that has only at ability and its lacklust at that, it seems to like missing or just doesnt like to penetrate, the katyusha is a ok unit i seen it do ok in some games and awful in others.
t1 has snipers which are fine imo, because they are the only unit that kills something, penals are in a wierd spot I've seen people use them but they just aren't worth it they lack any long range dps and they dont have the armor of shocks to duke it out in close range with infantry, or any useful utility like at nades, penals should be buffed to be a long range unit. M3 is fine. In t2 I never liked the Maxmim design, even since closed beta i hated it, I want a area of denial HMG, but I guess its fine as it is currently, apart form it not retreating when ever a squad member dies, but that seems to be fixed in the beta. The soviet mortar is the worst mortar in the game its bad Rof and the accuracy doesn't seem to be any better than the ostheer mortar, speaking of the ostheer mortar, its ROF is way to high its as bad if not worst when a pak reaches vet3, the zis is the worst at gun in the game just because it gets an artillary barrage that not even that good, its suppose to be an at gun so why does it have some thing that fit its role? It wouldn't be so bad if the barrage was acutally good, The pak has stun rounds, 57mm has 70 range and ap rounds and the 43 has camo and can go in buildings, the zis? nothing not only that its rof is just bad and with the nerf to its vet 1 ability its a pain to use.



3. Cons LOL the king of kings, I'm going to dwell on this its been said time and time again, but I'll say this forcing players to play a faction with an infantry unit that cost 240mp and with 6 men that negates its so called " cheaper" myth that doesn't exist is bad faction design, they just end up bleeding you man power mid/late game because they don't do anything, they're just there to throw at nades at that point.


4. Commanders again this has been said time and time again, the commander system is bland and boring, I hate to say this but why would you dumb down the coh1 commander system? it was perfect, just building on top of it and improving it, not only that alot of the commanders are simply terrible and need a over haul. Another user whiteflash made a perfect example of how the coh2 commander system should've been I can't find it though.


5.Call ins- Soviets being the main offender of this because of their bad stock units, Just revert them back to how it was in beta, for example the t34/85 was unlocked at 8 cp and you had to build t3 and build them from that, its a simple solution to this problem and will help solve alot of the core problems the sovets have with there stock units.

Edit

4. magic- I forgot about this point as well, units like falls and JLI popping out of buildings has to go, I don't know who thought that was a good idea , but it has to stop.

i dont care wat anybody says..

OBERS ARE OP AS FUCK.

OBERS CAN SIT IN FRONT OF AN MG AND WIPE IT!!!!!

EDIT: OBERS ARE SOO OP! THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN THIS GAME

I always like it how the faction with the "bad" early game is the first faction to get über-inf out (Obers don't come that late). And yeah, commanders are stupid. Another step back. I've stopped counting how often the call-in-meta change was demanded. I don't think they will do anything about it.

And OKW has way too much elite infantry. Jaegers, Fallschirmjäger and Obers? Better design another Obersquad with the abillity to spawn from buildings.

Every faction has their problems, for the soviets its the lack of a lategame vehicle without doctrines. I think this could be mitigated by adding 1 unit to each faction to fuffil roles that are lacking such as a soviet late game tank, OKW anti garrison unit, USF indirect fire, Ostheer...Idk add something cool

They could also just buff the hell out of 76s, and 85s but idk if we want that

Soviets should also be able to buy their t3/4 on the cheap then upgrade them to unlock units, this way you can allow the soviets to have a midgame light/medium vehicle and increase the opportunity cost of stalling for call ins

Since the soviets win with their vehicles every game most of the afore mentioned infantry problems can be lessened or resovled by giving them russians some earlier vehicle support and better late game vehicle support without doctrines(so you can use something other than the 5-6 with heavy tanks)

but they are aryan? they are supposed to be better than everyone?

Obersoladaten- I don't care how expensive it is, it is not ok to have a unit that completely negates infantry thats just bad design, seriously everything melts to its LMG even in green cover, we're talking about a unit that can fight HMG's head on. Its especially worst for Soviets then Americans because their core infantry is alot weaker and doesn't have any way to scale in to the mid/late game. Guards use to be ok against them then the dp was nerfed (lol) because we all know Guards use to be op, shocks are very situational against obers, even with smoke grenades you will still probably lose because chances are the ober squad isn't alone and/or its on a open ground giving the obers time to reposition and shred shocks. Snipers would be ok, but once again people these days just blob obers with another squad and with volks/pfusiliers and snipers are useless vs blobs. Tanks are supposedly their weakness, but thats not the case because shrek volks blobs and reketen werfers combined with low health pool and armor of allied tanks means that obers won't really be effected by armor. Americans its not so bad because rifle men are pretty good and bars are getting buffed and airborn with m1919 or riflemen with m1919 are pretty good vs obers, but it is still something that needs to be looked at.

Change LMG34 to be more reasonable. It's silly how epic anybody can become by picking up that gun of the floor.

LMG- even with the so called "nerf" lmgs are still king of the battlefield as they have been since march, Every faction except the soviets, has a non doc lmg so they get shafted in this department (lets face it no one is going to be cautious about guards with dp's, and they're doctrinal) has a good lmg, the mg42, m34, and the bar. So they pretty much get to attack move every where with little to no micro requirements, while soviets have to use cheesy gimicks like maxim spam, sniper abuse, and the isu152. If relic gave the soviets a decent all round infatry the scales well in the mid/late game people wouldn't have to deal with constant abuse and come to the forums and cry how op snipers and the isu 152 are. Its not fair or fun to have to micro infantry around all the time while your opponent can just mow you down with his lmgs.

My solution?
1. Change LMG to the old style where it was short-mid range weapon.
2. Make the LMG a flat dps at all ranges. Take the lowest and highest dps of the LMG and divide by 2.

e.g.: LMG42 highest dps 8.2389
LMG42 lowest dps 5.6672

(8.2389+5.6672)/2=6.95305

Sounds like a reasonable number eh?

I still prefer solution one though. And give one DP to the conscripts.

In general the only faction that has a shitty tier design is the soviets( Agian), although i think ost t4 is still to expansive, but its espically bad for the soviets because it cost 120 fuel and 230 mp for t3 and t4 and soemthing like 120 seconds to build them. To make matters worst they all have lack luster units, the t34 has bad armor and health, its ROF was recently nerfed and it gets stomped by okw all of the time because of volks blobs and pumas (Puma is ridiculous by the way) against ost it not as bad, but its not worth using it against them ether, I can't even remember the last time I seen some one use it. The t70 is a good unit but comes to late, you might as well get a t34 for 30 more fuel, and the m5 haltrack is not worth it, the aa upgrade is decent but the unit it self just isnt worth it because it comes to late to, and delays a t34, so its in the same boat as the t70. t4 has the su76 which is just lol, the su85 has been consistently nerfed over the past year, while we seen the panther buffed recently and blitzkreig buffed as well, its time to give the su85 the buff its needs to remain competitive 120 fuel for a unit that has only at ability and its lacklust at that, it seems to like missing or just doesnt like to penetrate, the katyusha is a ok unit i seen it do ok in some games and awful in others.
t1 has snipers which are fine imo, because they are the only unit that kills something, penals are in a wierd spot I've seen people use them but they just aren't worth it they lack any long range dps and they dont have the armor of shocks to duke it out in close range with infantry, or any useful utility like at nades, penals should be buffed to be a long range unit. M3 is fine. In t2 I never liked the Maxmim design, even since closed beta i hated it, I want a area of denial HMG, but I guess its fine as it is currently, apart form it not retreating when ever a squad member dies, but that seems to be fixed in the beta. The soviet mortar is the worst mortar in the game its bad Rof and the accuracy doesn't seem to be any better than the ostheer mortar, speaking of the ostheer mortar, its ROF is way to high its as bad if not worst when a pak reaches vet3, the zis is the worst at gun in the game just because it gets an artillary barrage that not even that good, its suppose to be an at gun so why does it have some thing that fit its role? It wouldn't be so bad if the barrage was acutally good, The pak has stun rounds, 57mm has 70 range and ap rounds and the 43 has camo and can go in buildings, the zis? nothing not only that its rof is just bad and with the nerf to its vet 1 ability its a pain to use.

Make it more like the CoH1 US? Or make it so that the other building becomes cheaper once you build one of them.

Cons LOL the king of kings, I'm going to dwell on this its been said time and time again, but I'll say this forcing players to play a faction with an infantry unit that cost 240mp and with 6 men that negates its so called " cheaper" myth that doesn't exist is bad faction design, they just end up bleeding you man power mid/late game because they don't do anything, they're just there to throw at nades at that point.

One DP or maybe an SVT upgrade would do.

Commanders again this has been said time and time again, the commander system is bland and boring, I hate to say this but why would you dumb down the coh1 commander system? it was perfect, just building on top of it and improving it, not only that alot of the commanders are simply terrible and need a over haul. Another user whiteflash made a perfect example of how the coh2 commander system should've been I can't find it though.

Not sure what's the problem actually. Explain please.

Call-ins Soviets being the main offender of this because of their bad stock units, Just revert them back to how it was in beta, for example the t34/85 was unlocked at 8 cp and you had to build t3 and build them from that, its a simple solution to this problem and will help solve alot of the core problems the sovets have with there stock units.

T-34/85 as stock tank would do well. By 1944, T-34/85 was the standard tank.

magic- I forgot about this point as well, units like falls and JLI popping out of buildings has to go, I don't know who thought that was a good idea , but it has to stop.

Fallschirmjager, JLI and Stormtrooper should lose this ability. Leave partisans alone though.

Oh look it's this thread again.
Nerf all axis units, buff the allies.

I had a game where an RE squad managed to pick up 2 lmg-34s... The amount of murder that squad produced was hilarious. I'm fine with obers being strong, but the model sniping nature of the 34 needs to be toned down. Make them tougher or buff their k-98s a bit more but please reduce the dps of the lmg-34

Oh look it's this thread again.
Nerf all axis units, buff the allies.

I think it's nerf the Germans, fix the Soviets.

USF doesn't have a non-doctrinal LMG either, BAR is not an LMG in game terms (you could argue it was historically). The BAR profile is actually pretty similar to the Garand profile, just moved up the axis to do more DPS at all ranges.

Im sorry but i like the commander system. i love having the options of b4, kv1, tiger ace, cons ptrs etc etc.

Soviet faction design is bad, I have said this before. Relic doesn't seem to believe it.


Obersoldaten seems like the only thing the OKW has that can hurt the snipers. Kubelwagen are fragile and can't even finish off snipers, even the fallshirmjagers can't kill snipers even when they spawn right behind them.

We need to make a complete overhaul of the entire Soviet faction.

I personally don't want to see Obersoldaten nerfed, especially with all those buffs to the US that's going to happen. Give Soviets a supply center so they have more infantry too spam.

They are still OP as fuck. Coming after 80 fuel accumulated is not really lategame, and they rape anything but blobs or well used Shocks effortlessly. Like, if something is on foot and cannot directly counter them, they will cut the squad down to size in seconds. They're a horribly designed unit that's too cheap for what it does, especially given that they cost no ammo whatsoever while all other LMG squads do, hell if they want their LMGs to perform up to par USF needs to sink 120 ammo in a doctrinal unit, or 140 ammo on doctrinal LMGs.

And yeah, LMGs in general still overperform by being too good at range. Lower their long range DPS, rifles and carbines should be the weapon of choice at this. An alternative would be that their DPS against cover is further reduced, making placement and micro good vs them.

For every obersoldaten you build, you save a regular 120 munitions (however many OKW munitions) because 100 manpower or so equates into an lmg with twice the DPS of an lmg42. Completely, reasonable, right?

They are still OP as fuck. Coming after 80 fuel accumulated is not really lategame, and they rape anything but blobs or well used Shocks effortlessly. Like, if something is on foot and cannot directly counter them, they will cut the squad down to size in seconds. They're a horribly designed unit that's too cheap for what it does, especially given that they cost no ammo whatsoever while all other LMG squads do, hell if they want their LMGs to perform up to par USF needs to sink 120 ammo in a doctrinal unit, or 140 ammo on doctrinal LMGs.

And yeah, LMGs in general still overperform by being too good at range. Lower their long range DPS, rifles and carbines should be the weapon of choice at this. An alternative would be that their DPS against cover is further reduced, making placement and micro good vs them.

err no, try 120 and most of the time there is T2 vehicles with fuel... so much more than 80.

Im sorry but i like the commander system. i love having the options of b4, kv1, tiger ace, cons ptrs etc etc.

I like the commander system too somewhat, I just think the commanders need to be designed a bit better. Like they all need some sort of late game in one way or another but it seems like there are only a few that does while the rest is useless. I like the idea that each doctrine has their own late game like having to decide whether to end with IS2s, ISUs, or just make T34s easier to spam. Instead we get cheesy junk that I don't think Relic had any idea what to do with the doctrines like the Soviet industry. Soviet late game with industry was supposed to be like having a bigger army that balances out that lack of Heavy tanks but instead we got an ability that makes players make tanks way before the Germans were able to make AT guns so it was incredibly dreadful but the Soviet player has to cheese them to death otherwise it gets too late game and Industry players are severly handicapped by the lack of manpower and floating so much fuel. Such junk. Commanders need to be redesigned.

err no, try 120 and most of the time there is T2 vehicles with fuel... so much more than 80.

OKW starts with 40 fuel. First truck is thus free. T4 is 80 fuel. So they need to accumulate 80 fuel. To put it that way, when Ostheer unlocks PGrens and 222, OKW rougly unlocks Obers. Balance!

USF doesn't have a non-doctrinal LMG either, BAR is not an LMG in game terms (you could argue it was historically). The BAR profile is actually pretty similar to the Garand profile, just moved up the axis to do more DPS at all ranges.

I believe that relic uses the assault rifle profile for bars.

Many valid points Mr. Red Bear and i very much do agree

Obers are just ridiculous even now. THey were nerfed too a couple months ago too (imagine how they were like then!!). IMO they aren't that expensive since they can pretty much fight all sorts of infantry form any range.

LMGs are still an issue, especially the LMG42. A blob of them can really wreck the Soviets due to the Soviets' poor hp units. The "sniping" is quite annoying.

I agree with the rest