Jagdtiger is the new Elefant

Just had a game on rails and metal which was pretty pretty intense.
We lost with 0 to 9 points but all in all it was a gg but there is one thing that bothers me.

Remember about half a year ago when 90% of all games went ISU vs Elefant?
The time has come back but change Elefant to Jagdtiger.
On wide range maps against at least one soviet it's either Jagdtiger or lose.
I know there are hundreds of ISU-threads in this forum but I try to address the actual meta problem.
From all meta problems (Kübelwagen, Sniper, Maxim Spam) this is IMO the worst.

As OKW you know there is only one commander to choose.
As OST, well, lol.

Well, it's not like having a Jagdtiger is bad even when your enemies don't have ISUs.

Sure but I want to play something else than Jagdtiger all the time...
If I want to play Luftwaffe for early game dominance then I have fun and when the ISU arrives I can leave the game.
Units that are essential to win should not be in a commander.

Units that are essential to win should not be in a commander.

Like ISU, guards and shocks?

I really don't understand why you would need Jagd to deal with ISU with the new Panther, especially the OKW version with its warp drive blitzkrieg.

Short: Jagdtiger is stupid.

And i guess its so widely accepted, that no one thinks it necessary to talk about it. It turns games. I admit tho, that against isu its stupid not to choose.

Jagdtiger is not a necessity for victory.

Jagdtiger just makes victory very easy.

Just had a game on rails and metal which was pretty pretty intense.
We lost with 0 to 9 points but all in all it was a gg but there is one thing that bothers me.

Remember about half a year ago when 90% of all games went ISU vs Elefant?
The time has come back but change Elefant to Jagdtiger.
On wide range maps against at least one soviet it's either Jagdtiger or lose.
I know there are hundreds of ISU-threads in this forum but I try to address the actual meta problem.
From all meta problems (Kübelwagen, Sniper, Maxim Spam) this is IMO the worst.

As OKW you know there is only one commander to choose.
As OST, well, lol.

I only go jagd if I see my opponent has an ISU commander, its just too much of a risk not too. That being said, I really don't enjoy that play style and will usually go with something a little more mobile if I'm not worried about an ISU.

Jagd + Scavenge ostwind. Never gets old

That shooting trough the walls + 100 range + maps like crossing in the woods = fhuzhfuzehufzhe as allies.

the answer is b4lyfe

"Elefant and ISU spam is getting old, lets nerf them, and add the Jadgtiger to outclass them"

Thanks Relic.

Agreed, Jadgtiger and other super-heavies are lame as shit.

It's incredibly slow; easily flanked; 13 CP and by the way costs the equivalent of well over 300 fuel.

I think it's fine as is. Given the aforementioned cons, nerfing it would make it go the way of the Elephant (i.e., the Dodo)

It's incredibly slow; easily flanked; 13 CP and by the way costs the equivalent of well over 300 fuel.

I think it's fine as is. Given the aforementioned cons, nerfing it would make it go the way of the Elephant (i.e., the Dodo)

Problem is that is has extreme range, shoots like a Pak43, doesnt really get stunned once upgraded, and even when flanked, support is more than happy to clear things up. Its extremely hard to kill that thing against decent players, while this fortress shoots through buildings at extreme range 2 shotting most of your armor.

altho i play germans mostly i agree that the jagd is a bit over the top.

my sugestion is to switch the range of elefant and jagd.
85 range jagd should be lowered to 70 and still shoot like pak 43.

70 range elefant should have increase range to ~80 or 85 with proper feul cost increase ofc.

As OKW you know there is only one commander to choose.
As OST, well, lol.

Only one commander huh?

No desire to use the panther? The King Tiger with support? Smokes/Calldowns to get rid of the ISU supporting units? A lone Puma can dance on the ISU if you can force back other units.

OST has no counters to the ISU? Panther, PZ4 Spam, luring into Pak 40s, mines, any wide variety of call downs that allow you to suppress/force back the ISU support and isolate it?

Jagdtiger is by NO MEANS necessary to win against an ISU. I'll cede that on some maps, it may be the best/easiest choice. But it is never the only choice.

It's incredibly slow; easily flanked; 13 CP and by the way costs the equivalent of well over 300 fuel.

I think it's fine as is. Given the aforementioned cons, nerfing it would make it go the way of the Elephant (i.e., the Dodo)

Half the problem is that on narrow maps, there is no flanking. The entire map is the front line and there's no alternative paths or routes to go around. Like the above example, Rails and Metal, there's no room to flank around, you have only the Middle, and the sides of the Middle. There's no far left or far right routes, to go around, so it's a battle of attrition and OKW are excellent at that.

I never thought i would say this, but my beloved Jagdtiger (and 70+ range supertanks in general) isn't very good for the gameplay, at least in teamgames.

Tanks that can operate well outside of the range of AT guns (artillery excluded) don't fit very well in the rock-paper-scissors box. Couple that with vehicle snares and less than effective allied handheld AT weapons on small, chokepointy maps and you suddenly don't have much options how to tackle these units.

From experience, the only efficient ways to deal with the Jagdtiger currently are:

1. Don't let them get it.
That only works in a 1v1 scenario. If you let your enemy mass all that fuel, he deserves to have a super unit. In a way that is balanced.
But in 2v2+ in the longrun there is always a point where fuel doesn't matter much - even in a close game. And that's where supertanks and OKW in general gets out of control.

2. Medium tank spam
Spend every resource on T34-85s, M4Cs or Easy8s and then start praying. Pray, that your opponent is a less skilled player than you and doesn't support his supertank as well as he should. Pray that there aren't any mines. Pray that their vehicle snares will bounce. In the end, it as a very risky all-in, and the advantage almost always lies in favour of the defender.

3. Artillery
Not possible in 1v1, because you won't have the damage output to outright destroy a heavy tank. 2 B4 or 3 Priests have the potential to destroy or heavily damage a Jagdtiger, if the shots land right on (a marked-) target. But these kind of ordnance arguably is a higher investment and costs more popcap than the unit it is supposed to destroy.


Therefore the options are limited, once these superrange units are out. AT guns are not an option. The prime tankhunters Jackson and SU85, which are perfectly viable against lets say King Tiger, suddenly become XP-Piñatas for the Jagdtiger.

Need Jadg just to tackle ISU?

LoL

Sure but I want to play something else than Jagdtiger all the time...

and I want to play something else than IS-2/ISU too....

with OKW and Wehrmacht I can choose anything I want, as Wehrmacht I play CMD with arty almost all the time.

I know that game isn't a sim, but from a design, balance, AND realism perspective, it is frustrating the the units that balanced out super heavies in real life, like close air support and artillery, not to mention mechanical unreliability, aren't represented much in the game.

IMHO having an Elefant or ISU in the game in the first place is just asking for trouble if AT airstrikes and heavy artillery aren't stock options for all the factions.

close air support and artillery aren't represented much in the game.

Is this some kind of joke?

-Time on target
-P47
-B4
-Priest
-IL2 Bombing Run

All of those will murder any heavy very quickly