So... maxims...

hopeful we dont have to wait 6 weeks for another patch for maxim

Also people forgetting also with M42/34 inferiority, that Allies have smoke grenade...make it even worse

Do you think people enjoy spamming maxims?

I hate it. I'd love to have baseline infantry that scaled, but you gotta get to CP 2 somehow and maxims are valuable all game.

i doubt if two expeirenced players were up against eachother in a 1v1 that buying just maxims would event remotely work.

main infantry, mg teams, and mortars are basically rock, paper and scissors. If you have lots of rocks and the other person brings lots of paper thats going to be how it goes. bring scissors.

Do you think people enjoy spamming maxims?

I hate it. I'd love to have baseline infantry that scaled, but you gotta get to CP 2 somehow and maxims are valuable all game.

Actually yes, I think that people do enjoy spamming maxims, so much so in fact that they are proud of the action and actually try to brag and get egotistical about it.


Also the point of Soviets is to have shitty inexperienced baseline infantry that are great in numbers, giving you options to swarm like the zerg in Starcraft. Their advantage was to get tons of cheap shitty tanks that could also swarm the tougher "superior" German tanks. At least that was the vision back in Beta. It's changed quite for the worse since then imo



Soviet conscription was rough, often taking in the most inexperienced laborers as well as just anyone they could find. Every farmhand who knew nothing except farming, every wrench turner and carpenter was given a rifle and a uniform and told to charge this position. Because if you don't kill them, we'll kill you and your family.

Shit like that, meanwhile the German counterparts were fewer and far more experienced from the war in Poland, Denmark, France, Belgium, Africa, etc. etc. etc....

i think problem is mortars. You cant counter maxims and mortars with german mortar as long as you dont have mortar ht very early.Its doctrinal so.

If the soviet is t2 then forget your support weapons because they all will be cleared by soviet mortars.

I dont find this big issue but i think thats why people think maxims spam in 1vs cant be countereble.

I'm just saying it's a clear cut issue when a maxim can be spammed to hell because it has virtually no down sides in comparison to its German counterparts. I realize the point of the German MG is to be used defensively but it can't even do that job well.

Maxims lock down and shut down entire sectors, even more efficiently when they are spammed. German MG's.. eh they are just disappointing. Especially against blobs of infantry.

Often I hear the excuse "You can't expect 240mp MG's to stop 1000mp worth of infantry." Which I feel I rightfully can disagree. That's the entire point of a machine gun, to shut down a sector until it is properly flanked or sniped or destroyed with vehicles or indirect fire. Unfortunately the Maxim has proven extremely efficient in these areas while the German MG's have proven to be woefully outmatched.

One maxim does not lock down an entire sector ...

An MG42 is better at stopping a blob than a maxim (stat-wise), because of AOE suppression. That's a rather key pro that you're omitting.

I've always found MG42s to work just fine when rifles walk straight into them, but then again, I back mine up with grens who sight for them and guard them.

Even when I play as allies I like to use MG34s or 42s if I can capture them. Put one in green cover with a rifle squad to back it up/scout, and you can take a blob of obers/volks if they blunder into it from the front. That's ~500 MP taking down nearly ~900 MP worth of units ... sounds about right to me.

Why don't you try using maxims yourself?

Also the point of Soviets is to have shitty inexperienced baseline infantry that are great in numbers, giving you options to swarm like the zerg in Starcraft. Their advantage was to get tons of cheap shitty tanks that could also swarm the tougher "superior" German tanks. At least that was the vision back in Beta. It's changed quite for the worse since then imo

Why even bring this up? You're aware that conscripts cost the same as grens and more than volks, right?

Do you want them to bump cons to 120 MP and them make them even more useless or something?

didn't they just change something with them last patch? I have the impression maxim squads take a lot more dammage and die rather easily once flanked.

didn't they just change something with them last patch? I have the impression maxim squads take a lot more dammage and die rather easily once flanked.

Yes, they corrected maxims losing their received accuracy penalty, so they die faster now.

Also the point of Soviets is to have shitty inexperienced baseline infantry that are great in numbers, giving you options to swarm like the zerg in Starcraft. Their advantage was to get tons of cheap shitty tanks that could also swarm the tougher "superior" German tanks. At least that was the vision back in Beta. It's changed quite for the worse since then imo

Ok then make it so Conscripts spawn as two squads for 240 manpower and the same population.

Sounds dumb? Good because comparing CoH 2 to Starcraft is stupid.

I believe at one time the Maxim had higher damage but lower suppression, while MG42 had high suppression and low damage...to me that seems like at least the beginning of a solution,while the MG34 and .50 cal could be the same, Germans get more suppression because they deal with more infantry/blobs, while Allies get more damage.

To be honest I would rather have useful conscripts over useful MG's. But you have to play with the cards your dealt. So out come the mg's and down go the German infantry.

Then you hit cp2, and out come shocks, and then the game gets fun.

To be honest I would rather have useful conscripts over useful MG's. But you have to play with the cards your dealt. So out come the mg's and down go the German infantry.

Then you hit cp2, and out come shocks, and then the game gets fun.

The game gets fun because Shocktroopers are so blindingly overpowered due to the fact they are six man squads that pack deathly bullet hoses and are nigh unkillable because of their 1.50 armor rating that needs to be reduced since every other German infantry in the game got their armor turned into "received accuracy" lawls, like that's better than armor...

The game gets fun because Shocktroopers are so blindingly overpowered due to the fact they are six man squads that pack deathly bullet hoses and are nigh unkillable because of their 1.50 armor rating that needs to be reduced since every other German infantry in the game got their armor turned into "received accuracy" lawls, like that's better than armor...

It is better than armor.

Shocks 1.5 armor would be equal to .66 received accuracy (Obers have .7) IF all that was shooting at them had a penetration of 1. LMGs, HMGs, light vehicle guns all have higher penetration than 1

Shock PPSH does about 12 dps at close range, not that insane honestly. Thompson paratroopers do more damage but aren't as survivable.

I don't know, soviets need to have some viable options. Of course many will take the maxim spam path because it's easier, but also counterable, as you proved yourself. You beat that guy. I sincerely don't know how maxim or cons could be reworked but making cons better won't solve the situation if maxim is not fixed. I mean, thinking that buffing cons while maxim will stay the same, will only create unbalance, meaning soviets can rape you with maxim now, and, if cons buffed, they will rape you with cons also . The solution is between these starting units but I cannot see what it should be.

I don't know, soviets need to have some viable options. Of course many will take the maxim spam path because it's easier, but also counterable, as you proved yourself. You beat that guy. I sincerely don't know how maxim or cons could be reworked but making cons better won't solve the situation if maxim is not fixed. I mean, thinking that buffing cons while maxim will stay the same, will only create unbalance, meaning soviets can rape you with maxim now, and, if cons buffed, they will rape you with cons also . The solution is between these starting units but I cannot see what it should be.

Isn't it obvious?

Jack up the damage on the Maxim some more, decrease its suppression a lot more. Increase the Dushka's suppression, keep its damage moderate. Then with a maxim that doesn't insta pin but kills faster, we have a more balanced system, and with the Dushka being a doctrinal suppression platform like the MG-34, we might see more play for it and its doctrines.


Then conscripts and penals will have every right to be buffed. Conscripts should still remain shittier with Penals being a bit better at everything, but you get the gist of it.

I enjoy playing all factions as they each have something cool or unique to offer, but lately, I've gotten extremely bored with the soviets. I don't enjoy spamming maxims, so I don't. Conscripts are garbage. They cost the same as a gren squad and are complete trash. Even with the ppsh upgrade (which requires a doctrine), they suck.

I am one of those people who truly feels like they should make soviet support weapons less independent and make soviet core infantry less terrible. I am in no way a soviet fan boy and am currently enjoying playing the other three factions; the soviets I just avoid if possible as I find them painfully dull.

I honestly don't care if they're competitive in the current meta because of doctrines and cheese; they're just boring. Within the current context of the game, most of their core units are either complained about for being annoying to fight against (sniper/maxim/flaming clown car) or are outdated and not as relevant as they should be (su-76/t70/su85/conscripts).

I'm not usually one to resort to hyperbole or make dramatic claims like "Relic needs to rework the whole faction!" but at this point, I honestly feel like the soviets need so many tweaks to their core units and commanders that it may as well be a rework the whole faction situation.

All I can say is must be playing completely wrong (which is probably the case!) 'cos I always find Maxims to be very poor, especially on the wider open maps. That narrow firing arc really means they're next to useless unless placed in a building or backed up with other maxims to cover the flanks.

I think it is a mistake to think a unit must be nerfed if it is spammed to a certain degree. If someone spammed 20 Sturms, cons, Rifles, volks, Mg42's, penals, snipers or guards it doesnt mean they need a nerf, it just means that they have no ability to adapt and should be punished.

A single maxim is balanced, i never build more than 3 and thats during a 30-45 minute match. if anything the maxim is spammed because 1,2 or 3 are simply not enough on they own to show a player how effective they are, which i think should change. Hence the spam.

Same thing with snipers, 3-4 really is a visible indication for the player of MP bleeding.

Maxim balance for me would be making the squad as a whole very very slow in terms of movement speed, and making the firing cone bigger. This would bring it more into line with the MG42, as its long set up time is what stops it from being so easily spammed, abused etc.

I've found it very depressing as Ostheer, running into the same boring Maxim spam game after game in automatch. Hopefully its addressed soon, as its really killing my love of the game at the moment (or of playing Axis at least).

Anyway, for me the main issue is the 6 man squads. The appropriate counter to Maxims should be stuff like Mortars, Snipers and flanking with grenades but many of these methods fail because they are very slow at killing a 6 man team. A 4 man team like the MG42 is very threatened by mortar fire, and if it keeps firing in the same spot is placing itself at risk of squadwipe from 1 lucky shell. In my opinion, this is appropriate. However, a Maxim team knows that it can take 1-2 mortar shots and keep fighting, and so isn't threatened in the same way. Similarly with snipers: a Maxim team can simply ignore a sniper for as long as it takes to win a single engagement (spotting for the sniper usually requires you to send a unit into the Maxim's range).

I recognise that this would be a big nerf to Maxims and Soviets, so in compensation I would suggest buffing the gun itself - improving the firing arc and possibly adding some more AOE suppression. This would make it a more viable unit if not spammed. At the moment, at least part of the issue is that 1-2 Maxims are hideously underwhelming.