Call-in design philosophy - backwards?
Posts: 508
I don't think Relic will ever tie call-in tanks to tiers, and I don't mean to start yet another thread about it.
Rather, from a game design perspective, I had an observation about how call-ins work in this game.
Right now, you need to invest money in teching/researching in order to get the stock tanks, which are inferior tanks, usually lighter or older models. So teching gets you P4s and T34-76, not T34-85, Tigers, or ISUs.
So in the current system, if you're playing as soviets, you need to pay fuel to research a dated, inferior model of the T34, but if you wait for later, and not much later, you unlock a better one for free.
Intuitively this doesn't any sense to me, and I think the balance problems that it causes within factions are also evident.
So, anyone else think that associating inferior tanks with research barriers is just an inherently backwards approach regardless of tweaking or adjustment?
This is another pipe dream, but I think it'd work much better if the call-in tanks were things like T34-76, tanks that you unlocked for free and could maybe use to skip a tier, but doing so meant giving up a bit of fire power.
Posts: 577
Would be great if Relic could post what they intend to do (if they do something) so that the community could discuss it and probably provide feedback? It's such a core problem!
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Posts: 164
Posts: 747
Hi all,
This is another pipe dream, but I think it'd work much better if the call-in tanks were things like T34-76, tanks that you unlocked for free and could maybe use to skip a tier, but doing so meant giving up a bit of fire power.
Absolutely agree with this point. I think the USF Armored Doctrine is quite a good example of how call-ins could be handled.
Posts: 168
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Now basically every viable commander in the game has a heavy armor option hitting the field in ~20 mins with a fuel price tag that discourages teching. So teching up is now the harder barrier to overcome.
They can either lower this barrier by reducing tech costs, raise the call in barrier by increasing XP or CP requirements across the board, or completely redesign the system as you and many others have suggested. Personally I'm not sure what the best fix is.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Great analyses. A flip between 85's and 76's would encourage players to go T3.
Lets flip SUs!
Posts: 2070
By adding decent tanks to the core design, you let other commanders become viable. The faction is also in a better place rather than relying on call-ins to be good.
Call-ins should be something like the old battlegroup from the Rifle Doctrine in COH1. It gave you a boost but it was not an "I WIN" button. Armor call-ins should be there to boost you a bit for that final offense or something you get quickly at the sacrifice of other tech, etc.
Right now, as a Soviet player, I feel there is no incentive to tech up (although I always do...don't know why I gimp myself). You use all that fuel to field an average vehicle. However, in a short amount of time, players can use that fuel and resource to field a great tank like IS2 and ISU52
With the nerfs to conscripts, ninja buff to support teams, and nerfs to T34, call-in meta will be even more prevalent.
Posts: 971
Posts: 2819
I think that Relic sees the problem and we can only hope that they address it. Though it will be hard, cause it could totally change the meta of call-ins. I hope there will be a day that people fight their tier-tanks instead of call-ins .
Posts: 164
What if the call in was T34/76's until you tech'd to T3? At that point the call in would be T34/85's.
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
The problem with call-ins in general is they're extremely boring when they're used as a core strategy rather than simply a supplement to base units. They're a lowest-common-denominator means of adding diversity to the game, but they're core to the commander model. If they want less people to rely on call-ins and commander-specific units, they're going to have to make the base factions more interesting. I'm sure they'd rather just release more commanders.
Posts: 146
Posts: 38
When CoH2 was in alpha/early beta, all commander-specific units had to be built from tech structures. The main problem back then was these commander-specific units replaced existing units instead of simply adding to the number of units you could create. For instance, Guards and Shocks replaced Penals, the upgunned T34 replaced the stock T34, etc. That was an imperfect solution because it ended up limiting your options; if you didn't have enough fuel for the upgunned T34, you were essentially screwed, since you couldn't produce the cheaper, weaker variant at all.
Maybe this is a soultion.
Call-ins requiring tech-up.
But not replacing existing units.
Just requiring tech-up.
Posts: 123
That is an interesting point Lucas, definitely something for us to think about.
I'm glad you're thinking about it, but what you said implies that this HASN'T been thought about already, and I wonder how this could be true.
We've seen so much discussion on here about this very topic and it's so blindingly obvious from just playing the game that this system is so wrong.
Posts: 26
However how can we go about fixing it without a complete redesign of all the commanders in the game? The only thing I can think of is that when the commander has a special unit that is a superior version of a regular unit, the special unit replaces the regular unit in the tech building, and the regular unit is pushed into call-in status.
For example, a commander with the T-34/85 would have the 85 available as a buildable unit in the T3 building, and the 76 would be a call-in at 7cp. But for commanders without the T-34/85, the 76 remains in the T3 building. Another example, a commander with the ISU would have the ISU sitting in the T4 building as a buildable unit, and the SU85 as a call-in at 7-8cp.
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