My thoughts & ideas on Conscripts

You need to do some research on penal battalions. Alot of the soldiers in the battalions were soldiers who had been encircled earlier in the war. Alot of trained officers had been sent to the penal battalions also. If anything the penal battalions had some of the most trained soldiers around.

look up a book called penalty strike on google. Read some of the free pages. Penal Battalions were used before attacks to infiltrate and break through enemy defenses. Get behind enemy lines and sabatoge communications and logistics.

Penal battalions were given flame throwers, ppsh lmgs and other various weapons. They were however only given these weapons right before they were about to go on a mission.

Yes? I know Penals were used as frontline shock troops, when they weren't just put into suicide squads or used as disposable cannon fodder. So why do they have long-ranged SVT40s? PPShs would fit their role far more. This isn't about precise realism, but about giving the Penals a reason to exist. Right now they have next to none.

Change the name to Strelki instead of Penals. The thing is that I'm fine with Conscripts' role, but soviets need a T1 infantry unit able to do damage at mid/long range.

And once the elite OKW infantry and upgraded grens take the field, even conscripts feel expensive due the huge number of casualties they have in each engagement. Past 15 min in the game, conscripts feel like ostruppens.

They should have their reinforcement cost decreased once T3/T4 is built, or at least their vet bonuses should be changed adding a bit of armor or defensive bonuses.

Make Cons cheaper, 210 manpower

They should have a commissar as an upgrade from the HQ once t3-t4 is built

-Increases rate of veterancy
-Commissar has decent combat capabilities himself plus some kind of ability (like the unit fights more fiercely but cannot retreat for a short amount of time) or some sort of zeal effect (the more models closeby, the stronger) whatever, something cool anyway.
-Formation changed for commissar to stand behind the other models, if he dies no more ability or bonuses until reinforced.

Only downside would be the unit being a 7 men squad, something that doesn't work well with cover or against supression.

They should have a commissar as an upgrade from the HQ once t3-t4 is built

-Increases rate of veterancy
-Commissar has decent combat capabilities himself plus some kind of ability (like the unit fights more fiercely but cannot retreat for a short amount of time) or some sort of zeal effect (the more models closeby, the stronger) whatever, something cool anyway.
-Formation changed for commissar to stand behind the other models, if he dies no more ability or bonuses until reinforced.

Only downside would be the unit being a 7 men squad, something that doesn't work well with cover or against supression.

I would replace commissar with a lieutenant or some other officer. By 1942, Stalin decided to curb the power of Commissars.

As stated before on many occasions Conscripts are not supposed to scale well late game without doctrinal upgrade due to faction design.
Imagine what would happened if Conscripts were as good late game as LMG Grens or Rifles and on top of that you had access to elite infantry like Shocks or Guards as well. I'm pretty sure anyone can see how broken that would be.
See at the bigger picture Gentlemen.

Cons certainly are the worst main line infantry in the game at the moment. I dont see how anyone can deny this fact.

Milka has a great point about upgrades. I cant help but agree with him there.

Maybe make them cheaper as has been suggested. Merge has opportunity costs with it. If they are going to be walking Half Tracks that need to go back to base to refill then they should be REALLY cheap.

I like the idea of the cost decrease upgrade as well.

Guards and Shocks everybody like to compare as the Soviets only choice for infantry is weak. Because that invalidates alot of interesting doctrine choices that I for one would like to get my money out of.

Penals should fill this role imho. Penals should go back to the old Penals. Where they could murder even LMG grens (and cost 360MP).

Edit: And as it stands Volks are better at their jobs then conscripts are. Want to talk about meat shield? Toss nades for lots of Vet. Get incoming accuracy recieved bonus at Vet 1...get self healing...get cold immunity with shrek package....etc etc. I love the way Volks are setup.

conscripts should become an 8 man squad at vet 2 or maybe give them a DP upgrade at vet 2.


The thing is , conscripts don't really even fullfill the role of meatshields in the late game. Sure they get a received accuracy at vet 3, but late game axis units have so much DPS, that conscripts melt anyways.

Milka has a great point about upgrades. I cant help but agree with him there.

The challenge is that it is too late for this kind of thinking. 3 of the 4 factions have mainline infantry that can scale and upgrade. If it is *so bad* to balance why were these exempt from the rule?

Over all I have warmed up to the idea of Penal's being the units to upgrade and scale.

As stated before on many occasions Conscripts are not supposed to scale well late game without doctrinal upgrade due to faction design.
Imagine what would happened if Conscripts were as good late game as LMG Grens or Rifles and on top of that you had access to elite infantry like Shocks or Guards as well. I'm pretty sure anyone can see how broken that would be.
See at the bigger picture Gentlemen.

That line of thinking is out of date. I know what would happen if Conscripts were as good as late game as LMG Grens, you'd see them on the field and fighting past the 20 minute mark. The thoughts can go both direction

Imagine what would happened if Volks were as good late game as LMG Grens or Rifles and on top of that you had access to elite infantry like Panzerfusiliers, or Obersoldaten as well.

Sounds like a good game to me.

Reading this thread, makes me think after reading almost every post. I am sure this must be the case for most others.Thanks for all the interesting contributions.

That line of thinking is out of date. I know what would happen if Conscripts were as good as late game as LMG Grens, you'd see them on the field and fighting past the 20 minute mark. The thoughts can go both direction

Imagine what would happened if Volks were as good late game as LMG Grens or Rifles and on top of that you had access to elite infantry like Panzerfusiliers, or Obersoldaten as well.

Sounds like a good game to me.

No, for the same exact reason you won't see Volks doing as well as Grens late game. As OKW you rely on Obers or call in infantry to the heavy fighting. Volks are only Shreck platforms only good when they outnumber the opponent 2:1 and I don't want Relic to change this as it would brake the balance. Strong Stormpioneers, followed by good Volks and backed up by Obers melting infantry. You wouldn't even be able to touch them with tanks due to Shrecks being present all the time. Good luck fighting OKW then.

Penals are the missing link. They are the gap filler that Sov needs to bring its tier and Doctrine structure together.

Cons are fine as pointed out by others here who fairly represent the elements OP seemingly deliberately left out.

Buffing Cons is completely barking up the wrong tree.
The problem, is Penals, and always has been.

The suggestion of modelling off of IG Sergeant/Commissar from DoW2 is intriguing, but I think its too late for such a core change.

And in anycase, it is incontrovertible and more or less accepted fact, that Penals are not filling the gap they should be, and I firmly believe that is the best avenue to start improving Sovs infantry efficacy mid-late, and at longer ranges, as operating alongside Sovs otherwise Doctrine specific (and specialised) infantry choices, as well as making non-callin Commanders more viable with a vanilla build supported by Penals.

Penals. These are the T1.5 units we are looking for.
Changes to this unit, I believe, can fix Sov infantry efficacy, especially vs the "new" OKW.
(Notably pending an inevitable PGren buff, which are currently almost as nonexistant as Penals, but I think that can be managed when thentime comes with relatively little effort)

As stated before on many occasions Conscripts are not supposed to scale well late game without doctrinal upgrade due to faction design.
Imagine what would happened if Conscripts were as good late game as LMG Grens or Rifles and on top of that you had access to elite infantry like Shocks or Guards as well. I'm pretty sure anyone can see how broken that would be.
See at the bigger picture Gentlemen.

sure it has been stated before, but by who? relic developers or just players?

sure it has been stated before, but by who? relic developers or just players?

Developers, but then again we have this quote by developer as well:

Blitzkrieg shouldn't magically attach rockets to a vehicle, not only does it break immersion, it provides the majority of German armoured units with a get out of jail for 40 MU card. Expect this ability to be addressed in the next update.

Developers, but then again we have this quote by developer as well:

which has been addressed. the speed bonus has gone down from 2x down to 1.35x, the bonus accuracy has been taken away completely, and it no longer works with engine damage.

Reading this thread, makes me think after reading almost every post. I am sure this must be the case for most others.Thanks for all the interesting contributions.

see we are very civilized here

Developers, but then again we have this quote by developer as well:

damn that sucks. it is not very fun though. surely they could make some changes to keep their intended purpose but make it fun for players to use them

which has been addressed. the speed bonus has gone down from 2x down to 1.35x, the bonus accuracy has been taken away completely, and it no longer works with engine damage.

OKW warp jump Blitz anyone?

No, for the same exact reason you won't see Volks doing as well as Grens late game. As OKW you rely on Obers or call in infantry to the heavy fighting. Volks are only Shreck platforms only good when they outnumber the opponent 2:1 and I don't want Relic to change this as it would brake the balance. Strong Stormpioneers, followed by good Volks and backed up by Obers melting infantry. You wouldn't even be able to touch them with tanks due to Shrecks being present all the time. Good luck fighting OKW then.

How can you use Volksgrenadiers as a comparison with a straight face? Volks scale into late game and Conscripts don't. That's the entire point of this thread.