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OKW Puma

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21 Aug 2014, 20:04 PM
#81
avatar of UberHanz
Donator 11

Posts: 247 | Subs: 2

@ UberHanz: please desist with the theory craft on Balance threads,unless and until you put up a replay to back up your assertions.


My assertion being that since the OKW has the worst at gun in the game, it needs some proper compensation for it, like a very strong Puma, should I now post a video on how the Raketenwerfer is shooting into the ground for 10 mins with clown music? :)

But, yeah, I have 17 posts, and obviously must have no idea about anything and I should not speak up.

A quite inviting attitude for a community starving for people to get involved.
21 Aug 2014, 20:21 PM
#82
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2014, 20:03 PMJaigen


For cost its fine. its a tank destroyer its their to destroy tanks. or do you want to nerf the wolferine as well then? same value and even more AT. and how the fudge do you even vet a puma from infantry kills? i have trouble vetting my luchs and a puma is 10 times more difficult to vet from infantry.

if the puma parks himself in front of a squad in the open it indeed has around the dps of 2 grens firing at a squad.


Remind me timing on wolverine and its AI capacity again?
Do you want to compare mobility as well? Because this is another field where wolverine is left far behind.

And if you want to know how to vet puma off infantry, try watching helpinghans, stephenn, siberian, basically any decent player who streams.

Just because you are bad with puma and fail to utilize its full potential doesn't mean it does not overperforms on top level play.
21 Aug 2014, 21:28 PM
#83
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

If people consider that Puma AI is "useless", just reduce it even more if the unit is overperforming.
Moving smoke to vet1 won´t make too much difference but i guess it´s worth the try.
21 Aug 2014, 21:33 PM
#84
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665



My assertion being that since the OKW has the worst at gun in the game, it needs some proper compensation for it, like a very strong Puma, should I now post a video on how the Raketenwerfer is shooting into the ground for 10 mins with clown music? :)

But, yeah, I have 17 posts, and obviously must have no idea about anything and I should not speak up.

A quite inviting attitude for a community starving for people to get involved.


That's not really how balance works. You don't get a free pass for an overpowered unit because you find that another unit is not very good.

By the way, I don't think the Puma is that overpowered, and the Raketen's only real problem is that it hits the ground too much. OKW also has shrecks on a very tough and cheap basic unit, as well as the best non-turreted tank destroyer in the game. Later on, its Panther is actually pretty solid, and both the Tiger and Jagdtiger rule the battlefield against armor. Tell me again how the OKW has bad AT options.
21 Aug 2014, 21:49 PM
#85
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5



That's not really how balance works. You don't get a free pass for an overpowered unit because you find that another unit is not very good.


Agreed. One unit sucking doesn't justify another being too good. In fact it amplifies the problem. If only one build is viable, nobody will do anything else.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
21 Aug 2014, 22:28 PM
#86
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

The Raken is a Tier0 unit. And that make it pretty easily being on the field any time you need an AT. making it more accurate would simply obliterate any early light armored vehicle tactic.

My opinion is that the problem doesn't come from the Puma only, but the Puma and Shrecks. Before there was a trading compensation with the 66% ammo incoming so the player had to choose between one or the other, now it is easier for OKW players to have both on the field since the last patch and that make the Puma a real nightmare, not to deal with, but to take down because a good player will always have 1 or 2 shreck squad side by side.

Something like having shreck development linked to tier1 building would probably brings more diversity on the field by delaying one or the other.
21 Aug 2014, 22:38 PM
#87
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2014, 18:27 PMAbdul


Hardly and here is a reply where my opponent made 7 pumas! Yes you read it right seven plus a stuka and a panther! You can get vehicles as okw so easily.



what do you want to prove by that replay?
If anything at all, it just shows how fast pumas are destroyed, as opposed to most players saying it's a no brainer to micro it in order to destroy shermans.
It's a 42 minutes match, of course there will be a lot of vehicles. You had more shermans than he had pumas.
21 Aug 2014, 22:43 PM
#88
avatar of Steiner500

Posts: 183

Am i the only one that sees this unit overperforming too much? not only it has longer firing range than other common units like T34 but also has insta smoke ability and this "jammed turret" vet 1 ability which is win button, also it has super reload time, had game where with one Puma I killed Shermans with E.Z.


Any opinions? and pls dont tell me it's balanced cuz it costs moar than ostheer Puma

I fully agree to you!
21 Aug 2014, 22:52 PM
#89
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
Considering its AI is non existant. And you have something called a Zis gun. I would say its a non issue.
21 Aug 2014, 22:59 PM
#90
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Considering its AI is non existant. And you have something called a Zis gun. I would say its a non issue.

Is Rifles/Grens long range AI non existent?

No?

Guess what, Puma does better.
Unless you want to argue stats, then feel free to do so, but you were proven wrong waay before you've posted that.
21 Aug 2014, 23:04 PM
#91
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2014, 22:59 PMKatitof

Is Rifles/Grens long range AI non existent?

No?

Guess what, Puma does better.
Unless you want to argue stats, then feel free to do so, but you were proven wrong waay before you've posted that.


What? Grens have nothing to do with puma AI. Stop trolling posters as usual. How are you even still around on this forum?
21 Aug 2014, 23:26 PM
#92
avatar of Retaliation
Donator 11

Posts: 97



What? Grens have nothing to do with puma AI. Stop trolling posters as usual. How are you even still around on this forum?


Grens, rifles, and the puma MG42 all deal ~8 dps at max range.

21 Aug 2014, 23:52 PM
#93
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned


Grens, rifles, and the puma MG42 all deal ~8 dps at max range.



I'm talking about the cannon. I followed a sniper squad all the way to base the cannon fire right near the sov sniper squad 6-7 times. Didnt even kill one squad member. And your so called MG42 did not kill it either.
21 Aug 2014, 23:59 PM
#94
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665



I'm talking about the cannon. I followed a sniper squad all the way to base the cannon fire right near the sov sniper squad 6-7 times. Didnt even kill one squad member. And your so called MG42 did not kill it either.


You can't really argue with stats. 8 DPS is not significant, but it's not non-existant either. The cannon is pure RNG, I had Pumas with 20 infantry kills and I had some with 3 kills across a 30 minute game.
22 Aug 2014, 00:10 AM
#95
avatar of Ginnungagap

Posts: 324 | Subs: 2

I was a strong proponent of Puma is the best unit in the game since the beginning. Crazy good survivability duo to speed and smoke, range, penetration and DPS to tackle even heavy tanks, an excellent vet ability, sufficient AI and an affordable price makes it a complete package - which also arrives rather early. In the hands of a good player it is a beastly unit.

A little nerf could be warranted:
-Remove or put smoke at vet 1
-Remove or lower the DPS of the MG
-Lower the penetration a little bit

22 Aug 2014, 00:14 AM
#96
avatar of aradim

Posts: 110



I'm talking about the cannon. I followed a sniper squad all the way to base the cannon fire right near the sov sniper squad 6-7 times. Didnt even kill one squad member. And your so called MG42 did not kill it either.


The funny part is that aimed shot will kill a model (2 if bunched up enough) 100% of the time.
22 Aug 2014, 00:27 AM
#97
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
I was a strong proponent of Puma is the best unit in the game since the beginning. Crazy good survivability duo to speed and smoke, range, penetration and DPS to tackle even heavy tanks, an excellent vet ability, sufficient AI and an affordable price makes it a complete package - which also arrives rather early. In the hands of a good player it is a beastly unit.

A little nerf could be warranted:
-Remove or put smoke at vet 1
-Remove or lower the DPS of the MG
-Lower the penetration a little bit



Forum is run by soviet whiners they want to nerf the only unit that has any sort of credibility in the OKW arsenal. Yet it still gets owned by the US AA truck in a 1v1 fight. Amazing
22 Aug 2014, 00:28 AM
#98
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned


Forum is run by soviet whiners they want to nerf the only unit that has any sort of credibility in the OKW arsenal. Yet it still gets owned by the US AA truck in a 1v1 fight. Amazing


Puma is effectible 94 fuel yet doenst perform even at its cost of 70 fuel. It should be buffed not nerfed. Especially as a counter to maxim spam and Soviet snipers
22 Aug 2014, 00:31 AM
#99
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1



Forum is run by soviet whiners they want to nerf the only unit that has any sort of credibility in the OKW arsenal. Yet it still gets owned by the US AA truck in a 1v1 fight. Amazing


attacking anyone who disagrees with you isnt really helping your case. hes highly ranked in okw 1v1.
22 Aug 2014, 00:39 AM
#100
avatar of butterfingers158

Posts: 239



Forum is run by soviet whiners they want to nerf the only unit that has any sort of credibility in the OKW arsenal. Yet it still gets owned by the US AA truck in a 1v1 fight. Amazing






Oh and Puma will kill AA half track while taking zero damage if you use any micro... like any at all.
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