How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?

I am comparing tank with assualt gun. You know the difference? probably not.

Oh these replys..

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"By the time the ISU comes out, you should have tigers, jagdtiger, kingtiger."

Just sigh...

Firstly, you most certainly do NOT have jagdtigers or kingtigers out when the ISU hits the field, the fuel cost for those units are drastically higher with OKW reduced fuel income. Besides, you actually NEED to build tiers to get the KT and the JT is so late game and expensive if you lose to it you deserve to lose, but get this.... it only kills tanks. At least your waves of shocks and guards can still win the game for you.

Secondly, the tiger is possibly the worst unit to tackle an ISU with, it's too slow to flank anything.

Thirdly, if the Soviet player has half a brain he'll have a couple AT guns covering the ISUs flanks and then how will your flanking P4s and panthers do?

Kreatiir, do you have a replay showing how you defeat a competently played ISU with your flanking tanks? I'd sure like to see one.

Well some of you say ISU is fine as it is. OK lets give Jagdtiger and Elephant similar AI capability, JT had 120mm and Elephant 88 gun and also HE shells so it will be even realistic then we can ask russians if JT or Elephant are fine.

It one shots AT guns all the time, which is the biggest problem. Medium tanks like the P4 will have trouble reliably penetrating it sometimes. It can often 1 shot lone squad if they are clumped, but not all the time.


The unit is performing far better than any equivalent option for the Soviets, I don't get why Soviet fans are so defensive over it. It's not a core unit, if it didn't exist it wouldn't "nerf" the faction. Currently, it's creating a lot of balance problems. You can't counter with PAKs. Flanking with 2 P4s is harder than it sounds against a well supported army.

Yes, OKW has decent counter to the ISU (the jadgepanzer, and less so the jadgetiger). But Ostheer have little. They can't use PAK40s (will get wiped in 1 shot), elefant (there's a reason you don't see these in 1v1s anymore) or Tigers against an army that can use their ZIS AT guns + ISU + guards.


Don't want to bring up playercards but kreatiir has no position to say "L2P/L2A" when he hasn't actually played that much at all and isn't offering advice to OP. And of course, Kaitof will always defend the Soviet faction exclusively.

just like AT guns are useless isu152, zis are useless against jagdtigers when their front armour is 525.

Except that Jagdtiger will get stunned every time, you forgot to mention dat

Except that Jagdtiger will get stunned every time, you forgot to mention dat

yea, with zis fire rate, stunning it is totally reliable. but still whats the % of stunning?

Medium tanks like the P4 will have trouble reliably penetrating it sometimes. It can often 1 shot lone squad if they are clumped, but not all the time.

I flanked ISU152 with elite armor P4s, also with heat rounds enabled, hit his side armor ... either ISU armor is so strong or heat rounds are bugged - all deflected, didnt feeled rewarded for flanking as i should be...

The HEAT shells are an excellent way to deal with heavy Call-In-armor like the Soviet IS-2 or ISU-152. A combination of a moveable medium tank and an increased damage output will put the enemy into a tricky situation.
Tips from COH2.ORG

Nope...

yea, with zis fire rate, stunning it is totally reliable. but still whats the % of stunning?

Who cares about fire rate, it gets stunned a long time, so it would be an endless loop.
Zis fires> stuns...back to normal> zis fires>stuns....back to normal>zis fires

SO unless you take out that zis, it will get stunned forever ,I believe.

The % is also very high, at least in my games. My jagdtiger must be untouchable, otherwise the loop above will happen everytime...

ISU152 1 shots AT guns and squads too consistently, thus as Wehrmacht you're forced into having elefants to counter - and forcing you to use super tanks to counter super tanks is very bad game mechanics

ISU152 1 shots AT guns and squads too consistently, thus as Wehrmacht you're forced into having elefants to counter - and forcing you to use super tanks to counter super tanks is very bad game mechanics

GG if you already picked another doctrine or didn't even bring one with elefant

There are counters to ISU but you must be this flexible to get them to work

#adapt



(I also think the same goes for the Jagdtiger, so that should be rethought too. Still, at least it doesn't one-shot inf)

Who cares about fire rate, it gets stunned a long time, so it would be an endless loop.
Zis fires> stuns...back to normal> zis fires>stuns....back to normal>zis fires

SO unless you take out that zis, it will get stunned forever ,I believe.

The % is also very high, at least in my games. My jagdtiger must be untouchable, otherwise the loop above will happen everytime...

probably in your games only i guess. mine bounces off most of the time without doing anything.

(I also think the same goes for the Jagdtiger, so that should be rethought too. Still, at least it doesn't one-shot inf)

ermm, yeaaaa, but it shoots through shot blockers and late game soviet infantry are well, pretty meh to be honest.

and that building with a flak gun that has a pretty good range and suppresses infantry that comes for free with tech!

what is up with all these free guns that come along with tech? lieutenants,capts, major and flak buildings. not to mention free heals and repairs too, while ost and soviets have to shell out more resources to get to do the same.

people who say you should have kt, jagd, blah blah blah. isu=bomb strike destroys all that. do you not see the issue? paks get one shotted. elephants are so uselss they arent even a counter to it anymore. for the most part this thread is just soviet whineboys just grasping at straws trying to defend their insanely op units like usual. ie recvent kat patch. the same people defending the op isu are were defending the kat, saying they need it to win. well, yes, most of you soviet whiners do need an unfair advantage to win due to lack of skill, i will agree there. but, when you get a competent sov player, the isu is on the level of tiger ace was back when it came out.

I'll reiterate: I'd really like to see replays from people, illustrating any sort of methodical approach of how to deal with the ISU - outside of the Jagdtiger of course. Funny/condescending gifs aka Kreatiir don't necessarily change perceptions.

I'll reiterate: I'd really like to see replays from people, illustrating any sort of methodical approach of how to deal with the ISU - outside of the Jagdtiger of course. Funny/condescending gifs aka Kreatiir don't necessarily change perceptions.

I would if I faced it with any kind of consistency. Either when playing as Axis or Allies, I see it less than most other late-game heavies. I do tend to pursue an aggressive strategy even in 2v2, doing my damnest to deny or cutoff fuel at the risk of overextending.

I know I see Tigers, IS-2s, T-34/85s and King Tigers more often than I see an ISU. Probably because it's incredibly map-dependant. On Kharkov or Minsk, yeah it will probably win the Soviets the game. On urban maps, or Heurtgen forest, or stuff like that? It will get flanked too easily, or will not be able to use its range. On more open maps like Veaux Farmland, the map is larger enough to flank it more easily.

I personally tick off most of the maps that favor ISU or Jagdtiger. So it may be why I see it more rarely.

Also, you want a consistent counter? PaK 43. Shits all over it if well positioned. As OKW, 2 Jagdpanzer 4s can slug it out against it.

There are counters to ISU but you must be this flexible to get them to work

#adapt



(I also think the same goes for the Jagdtiger, so that should be rethought too. Still, at least it doesn't one-shot inf)

Actually, all it takes is to know more then that:



I know this was primary axis tactic since, well, release, but now it takes a bit more then that.

General consensus is "if it can't be a-moved by blob/tankspam, its OP".
Well, it isn't, it just means you play stupid.

Go ahead and nerf the ISU. As long as you also nerf the OKW blobs and the Jagdtiger.

Facing the isu-152 is similar to facing a tiger or a king tiger with t-34/76s. Tiger in the middle? T-34s on the flanks. Tiger on the left? T-34s on the right. You avoid and be there where the tiger isin't.

Until he overextends and gets engine damage to a mine or at nade and then you unleash your t-34s on the tiger.

This has been the one and only way to deal with tigers as USSR in 1v1s.

You deal with the ISU-152 similllary.

Fighting the tiger head on has always and always will be suicide. Why does fighting the isu-152 head on have to be viable?

Anyways, try to pressure your opponent before he gets the isu-152.

I'll reiterate: I'd really like to see replays from people, illustrating any sort of methodical approach of how to deal with the ISU - outside of the Jagdtiger of course. Funny/condescending gifs aka Kreatiir don't necessarily change perceptions.

if you want to play on a handicap you are welcome to try it on ur own, if not jagdtiger will always be used.

the most efficient counter is the jagdtiger. a KT/tiger can take on the role as a damage sponge too. the idea is to bait the thing out then send in tanks to flank.

also, another problem i realized is that penetration has been raised to new levels with dedicated AT having more pen than before to compensate for the insane armour values that KT and JT has. at the same time, tigers/panthers are now light-heavy tanks that cannot bounce shells reliably anymore.

maybe things can be balanced from there. reduce armour values of KT and JT to more believable levels and reduce all penetration across the board for heavy tank destroyers and hard cap it at 200. the only gun that can exceed this value is the american AT gun with AT rounds to give 100% pen to all tanks. this will restore tigers/panthers some of its formal glory with some real armour to work with, same with the is2.