Balance issues currently facing the game

Hi guys,

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to express my opinion about the current state of balance and issues plaguing the game. Please feel free to add your opinion to any of my points:

Soviets:

- Not a whole lot can be said about soviets. They are the strongest Nation in 1v1 by a considerable margin. They have a diverse set of units and strategies that can be used. Units are extremely powerful and they have multple armor options. T-34 85, IS2, ISU, KV8

- Zis3 barrage a bit too effective for price. Especially when combined with maxim. Perhaps increase price to 80 muns?

- Soviets do need a few issues addressed however. Balance is generally good. However i believe now too many people are exploiting the over performing nature of the MAXIM. It is extremely durable and difficult to dislodge added to the fact the soviets can merge and its combined suppression and damage makes it far too effective. Particularly vs OKW.

- I believe IS2 heavy tank has slightly too much Armor a little too difficult to penetrate

- Shocks and guards need an armor nerf in the same way Obers have JAegers have and decrease incoming accuracy the same way in line with relic viewing the game.

- Partisans, no idea what this unit is really for. Has no real place in the game. Please give it a unique ability.

- ISU 152 sigh*

- Soviet sniper. I believe there has been enough discussion on this. So wont add to it.

OH

Definitely has outstanding issues:

- Extremely susceptible to US infantry blobs and soviet Call in units.

- Grens and PGs desperately under performing vs US forces and to a slight extent vs soviets. They need some love. PGS need a desperate armor buff and grens need one too 4 man squad is already a huge detriment to have esp for demo charges and mines.

- OH T4 is none existent and not feasible at all. Too expensive and units are under performing or too expensive.

- Flame HT, when will this ever be made viable or feasible ?

- MG42 needs a moderate damage buff and slight durability increase.

- Assault grens are virtually extinct something needs to be done to improve effectiveness.

- 222 needs some attention. Comes out a bit late in its current state to be effective. Needs HP and damage increase.

OKW

- Panther too expensive, lack of adequate counters vs blobbing and extremely susceptible early game

- Volks are pretty trashy. The problem is Cons can Oorah in close and the the long range advnatage is negated almost instantly.

- Early game suffers tremendously vs Soviets and US forces.

- Flak HT is the same price as US AA track yet cant move, does less damage and has a 3 second set up time ? While US AA has a mobile 50 cal ? No idea what is going on here.

- Make MG34 availabe as normal Unit.

US

Boy where do i start..

- Lack of options really. Rifles are simply too powerful and there is little need to deviate from spamming them. So why go for anything else? Add a m1919 and watch the enemy cry in fear. Add two, and well..its goodnight.

- US AA, basically gamebreaking atm. Especially for OH. Mobile death factory.

- Need at least one heavy armor option on a free to use commander.

- Jeep call in to CP1

Thanks

Assault grens have their uses. They're good against rilfemen in early game if you micro them carefully, and the doctrine has tigers, so it stays viable late game, thus assault grens not scaling isn't an issue unless you build three of them. Try just getting one.

MG34 normal unit = no way, it's too big a change and not having a stock MG is part of the unique feel for OKW.

Volks scale into late game, get shreks, and are mostly just there to serve as support for the other, extremely powerful stock and doctrinal units available to OKW: Sturm pios, obers (stock), and then Falls, Pfuses, and Jaegers (doctrine). Volks being bleh is what balances out starting with an StG44 assault squad. If cons rush your volks, use Sturm pios as back up and make them wish they had kept their distance.

Assault grens have their uses. They're good against rilfemen in early game if you micro them carefully, and the doctrine has tigers, so it stays viable late game, thus assault grens not scaling isn't an issue unless you build three of them. Try just getting one.

MG34 normal unit = no way, it's too big a change and not having a stock MG is part of the unique feel for OKW.

Volks scale into late game, get shreks, and are mostly just there to serve as support for the other, extremely powerful stock and doctrinal units available to OKW: Sturm pios, obers (stock), and then Falls, Pfuses, and Jaegers (doctrine). Volks being bleh is what balances out starting with an StG44 assault squad. If cons rush your volks, use Sturm pios as back up and make them wish they had kept their distance.

Assault grens are useless vs US and is just a waste of MP.

Either MG34 needs to be standard issue for OKW or Kubel needs a huge increase in performance. Paper thin HP and very limited range and supression also could do looking at. I would prefer this unit be a mobile attack unit to deal with maxim spam and snipers.

Welcome to the forums. I also recently joined after a long time of lurking. Anyway, let me input my two cents.

Hi guys,

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to express my opinion about the current state of balance and issues plaguing the game. Please feel free to add your opinion to any of my points:

Soviets:

- Not a whole lot can be said about soviets. They are the strongest Nation in 1v1 by a considerable margin. They have a diverse set of units and strategies that can be used. Units are extremely powerful and they have multple armor options. T-34 85, IS2, ISU, KV8

- Zis3 barrage a bit too effective for price. Especially when combined with maxim. Perhaps increase price to 80 muns?

- Soviets do need a few issues addressed however. Balance is generally good. However i believe now too many people are exploiting the over performing nature of the MAXIM. It is extremely durable and difficult to dislodge added to the fact the soviets can merge and its combined suppression and damage makes it far too effective. Particularly vs OKW.

- I believe IS2 heavy tank has slightly too much Armor a little too difficult to penetrate

- Shocks and guards need an armor nerf in the same way Obers have JAegers have and decrease incoming accuracy the same way in line with relic viewing the game.

- Soviets are a great faction indeed, arguably my favorite so call me biased if you wish (though I do play all factions), but their tier system is pretty bad so just about everything they do is based on which doctrine they pick. I don't feel too many changes are necessary, though I'd actually go out of my way to get them less reliant on doctrines.

- The ZiS barrage (as well as almost all forms of arty besides the walking stuka) are basically RNG dice rolls. I already barely use 60 munition ZiS barrage unless the enemy is clumping up in front of my anti-tank gun like an idiot. If you want to make the barrage cost 80 munitions, I'd really like the hit zone to be much more reliable. I'm not paying 80 munitions for a gamble, at least not in the early game.

- I can fully understand why people are upset about maxim spam in 1v1's, though it feels necessary vs. team game blobbing. Honestly, I feel like most people do it because conscripts and penal battalions are not very reliable blobs to fight other blobs with, and Soviets have no non-doctrinal full auto-capable infantry. When the blob gets bigger, especially in team games, nerfing the maxim would arguably cause the Soviets to get face-rolled. Sometimes even my 2-3 maxims aren't enough because sturmpioneers wipe everything in 2 seconds if they get close enough, even if they're in front of the maxim and they didn't start getting shot at from far away.

- The IS-2 had thicker armor than the Tiger and came out about a year later, while in the game they're pretty comparable. Not to mention the IS-2 costs more. I fail to see the problem.

- Shock troops, unlike Obersoldaten, are not terminator squads at long range. They need the armor to close in at range. Guards are debatable.

OH

- MG42 needs a moderate damage buff and slight durability increase.

- I agree with all your Wehrmacht grievances except this one, though I can understand the slight durability increase. The MG42 is supposed to be used defensively and performs its role fine as is. It's already a monster at suppression. It also really needs to go back to its old sound. The new one sucks and sounds too much like the MG34.

Hi guys,
OKW

- Panther too expensive, lack of adequate counters vs blobbing and extremely susceptible early game

- Volks are pretty trashy. The problem is Cons can Oorah in close and the the long range advnatage is negated almost instantly.

- Flak HT is the same price as US AA track yet cant move, does less damage and has a 3 second set up time ? While US AA has a mobile 50 cal ? No idea what is going on here.

- Make MG34 availabe as normal Unit.

- Lack of adequate counters vs blobbing? That's honestly every faction when you take MG's out of the equation, especially after WFA. Countering blobs usually boils down to having a better blob nowadays. MG's aside (and don't underestimate the kubelwagen), OKW already gets tier 0 sturmpios which are amazing at bumrushing in blobs, Obersoldaten terminator squads, and volks with great AT capabilities, alongside a forward retreat point that heals for free. While American rifle blobs tend to be the best (the faction is built around that one strategy, basically), I would hardly call OKW bad for it. Not to mention that OKW have the only reliable artillery in the game with the Walking Stuka, and Relic are content with nerfing every other form of artillery ever into the ground, including Wehrmacht's.

- Volks are really not that far behind non-LMG grenadiers. They're really supposed to just be used as tanks for your sturmpioneers and obersoldaten, not to mention they get a reliable source of anti-tank. They're fine. They really shine with veterancy, as well.

- I agree about the flak half-track. It's not very useful now and very difficult to keep alive.

- I'd really rather MG34's stay doctrinal, though I suppose that would stop everyone and their mother from using only Luftwaffe tactics. Kubelwagens serve to make the faction more unique and it makes me sad people don't use them. They're great when micro'd well.

Hi guys,
US

Boy where do i start..

- Lack of options really. Rifles are simply too powerful and there is little need to deviate from spamming them. So why go for anything else. Add a m1919 and watch the enemy cry in fear.

- US AA, basically gamebreaking atm. Especially for OH. Mobile death factory.

- Need at least one heavy armor option on a free to use commander.

Thanks

- I agree. I've been saying this since alpha. Americans are basically a one-trick pony: spam rifles. There is literally no other strategy until you unlock other expensive tiers.

- I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm afraid to call the AA halftrack OP for fear that Relic will, as they often do, overnerf it and make it so utterly worthless that nobody will ever use it again. The US doesn't need any more reason to use only riflemen. This thing needs baby-step changes, nothing drastic. Not to mention I don't see it as a problem for OKW. The reason it's so good against Ostheer is because Ostheer aren't that good at the moment, rather than America being too strong.

- Agreed. American late game sucks.

Great post Warthrone, I agree with all of it!

I'd also add that I think the fact OH is being carried by the Tiger right now is a bit of a problem, not because it's doctrinal, but just because it's one unit.

222 needs buff as well.

I think adding a Pershing for USF would be quite interesting as well, I guess it would be about as good as a Panther, slightly better gun, but slightly worse armor and slower too. Would be balanced as long as it isn't devastating to infantry.

Great post Warthrone, I agree with all of it!

I'd also add that I think the fact OH is being carried by the Tiger right now is a bit of a problem, not because it's doctrinal, but just because it's one unit.

222 needs buff as well.

I think adding a Pershing for USF would be quite interesting as well, I guess it would be about as good as a Panther, slightly better gun, but slightly worse armor and slower too. Would be balanced as long as it isn't devastating to infantry.

Oh...how did i forget about 222. lol. Yeah thats a biggie. Ill add it to the list

Guards don't have armor anymore.... And I'd hate to see Shocks without any armor. Would be completely useless.

Honestly, this "balance list" looks like a "I lost a few times to allied players, so I would love it if you nerf allies into the ground so that I can have it easier for me. Thx Relic."

Honestly, this "balance list" looks like a "I lost a few times to allied players, so I would love it if you nerf allies into the ground so that I can have it easier for me. Thx Relic."

No offence, but thats rather ironic considering your playercard which is entirely Sov.

Know what I mean?
Something you might want to consider.

First part of post was fine. Had some good data, and neutral. I like.
Second part in the above has a very pot calling kettle black kind of vibe.

Good post, I agree with almost everything.

@Wathrone
Obviously you doesn't seem to play much with soviets seeing how you only propose nerfs for them.

I'm a biased soviet player, but I'd never propose a issues list where I clame only nerfs for some factions and buffs for the others.
Seems that you want to nerf EVERYTHING that can do damage with soviets: snipers, maxim, shocks, guards, is2 and isu.
It seems that for you only penals, SU76 and KV1 are fine...

obvious axis fanboy. I agree that soviets are strongest faction overall. But usf is very weak

Usf early game is strong but fragile, as the game progresses USF gets weaker while axis get stronger. You can field heavy tanks and elite troops. Just hold out unit tiger then its GG. tiger with a pak and mg wall is tuff for usf to break. cus lack of good arty. but soviets dont have as tuff as a time.

All these calls for allied nerfs and axis buffs are silly. lets be real. Axis dont need any buffs. But i do agree about the flame halftrack

hahaha, gaurds should get negative armor!

Assault grens are useless vs US and is just a waste of MP.

Either MG34 needs to be standard issue for OKW or Kubel needs a huge increase in performance. Paper thin HP and very limited range and supression also could do looking at. I would prefer this unit be a mobile attack unit to deal with maxim spam and snipers.

Kwagen could be a little more viable (in my casual opinion).

One assault gren can be helpful versus US early game since it gives you a unit that has better DPS than rifles at one range, at least. Just only build one and have it flank while they engage your MG and your regular grens.


Also, guards do not have armor anymore IIRC. Shocks having armor is what makes them shocks, without it they'd be useless for their cost and CP timing.

Right now, this thread is teetering on multi-invis......

if you want the opinions of Strat Specialists, if you want to be taken seriously and not be invised, then some of you have to take serious steps to cleaning up your acts.... last chance

Guys, please do not derail this thread. That was the reason i lurked for so long. Too many people trying to bite each others head off.

Calm down. Please note how Kothre replied to this thread.

Hi guys,

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to express my opinion about the current state of balance and issues plaguing the game. Please feel free to add your opinion to any of my points:

Soviets:

- Not a whole lot can be said about soviets. They are the strongest Nation in 1v1 by a considerable margin. They have a diverse set of units and strategies that can be used. Units are extremely powerful and they have multple armor options. T-34 85, IS2, ISU, KV8

- Zis3 barrage a bit too effective for price. Especially when combined with maxim. Perhaps increase price to 80 muns?

- Soviets do need a few issues addressed however. Balance is generally good. However i believe now too many people are exploiting the over performing nature of the MAXIM. It is extremely durable and difficult to dislodge added to the fact the soviets can merge and its combined suppression and damage makes it far too effective. Particularly vs OKW.

- I believe IS2 heavy tank has slightly too much Armor a little too difficult to penetrate

- Shocks and guards need an armor nerf in the same way Obers have JAegers have and decrease incoming accuracy the same way in line with relic viewing the game.

- Partisans, no idea what this unit is really for. Has no real place in the game. Please give it a unique ability.

- ISU 152 sigh*

- Soviet sniper. I believe there has been enough discussion on this. So wont add to it.

OH

Definitely has outstanding issues:

- Extremely susceptible to US infantry blobs and soviet Call in units.

- Grens and PGs desperately under performing vs US forces and to a slight extent vs soviets. They need some love. PGS need a desperate armor buff and grens need one too 4 man squad is already a huge detriment to have esp for demo charges and mines.

- OH T4 is none existent and not feasible at all. Too expensive and units are under performing or too expensive.

- Flame HT, when will this ever be made viable or feasible ?

- MG42 needs a moderate damage buff and slight durability increase.

- Assault grens are virtually extinct something needs to be done to improve effectiveness.

- 222 needs some attention. Comes out a bit late in its current state to be effective. Needs HP and damage increase.

OKW

- Panther too expensive, lack of adequate counters vs blobbing and extremely susceptible early game

- Volks are pretty trashy. The problem is Cons can Oorah in close and the the long range advnatage is negated almost instantly.

- Early game suffers tremendously vs Soviets and US forces.

- Flak HT is the same price as US AA track yet cant move, does less damage and has a 3 second set up time ? While US AA has a mobile 50 cal ? No idea what is going on here.

- Make MG34 availabe as normal Unit.

US

Boy where do i start..

- Lack of options really. Rifles are simply too powerful and there is little need to deviate from spamming them. So why go for anything else? Add a m1919 and watch the enemy cry in fear. Add two, and well..its goodnight.

- US AA, basically gamebreaking atm. Especially for OH. Mobile death factory.

- Need at least one heavy armor option on a free to use commander.

- Jeep call in to CP1

Thanks

PLEASE: Dont say wrong balance things. OKW is FINE as it IS and OSTHEER too. There are MIGHTY combinations u have no idea.

I challenge you to a CoH Game and i will play OKW and u ALLIED Forces. My Name is Lt. Steiner

PLEASE: Dont say wrong balance things. OKW is FINE as it IS and OSTHEER too. There are MIGHTY combinations u have no idea.

I challenge you to a CoH Game and i will play OKW and u ALLIED Forces. My Name is Lt. Steiner

You say they are fine but provide no justification. I said all nations are largely fine. As discussed in my first post there are minor issues to all nations. I did not ask for ridiculous nerfs pertaining to Sovs or US. Im simply addressing current issues that are breaking the game atm.

some of your changes do seem unnecessary like grens, pgrens, guards, and shocks, but youre absolutely right on others like the AA ht. to be honest, it doesnt matter how valid your points are though. if you suggest nerfs to the allies or axis, trolls will come and call you a fan boy. youre just going to have to accept that as part of the forums unfortunately.

ignore the obvious troll posts and just focus on the actual constructive posts.