Kubelwagon Idea's and Possible Improvements

I actually find the Kübel to be pretty useful and I don't think it needs some major changes. Sure you'll lose it eventually but that also means that you'll get 5 fuel back (given it manages to reverse far enough to be in friendly territory when blowing up).

I actually find the Kübel to be pretty useful and I don't think it needs some major changes. Sure you'll lose it eventually but that also means that you'll get 5 fuel back (given it manages to reverse far enough to be in friendly territory when blowing up).

Its not really worth the investment atm. A volks squad will be better in the long run and you will need it. Kubel is little worth vs soviets.

Personally I feel a good start to change on the Kubelwagon would involve changing its Vet 1 ability. Adding a Stealth Detection mode for a unit that cannot fire on the move very well makes it rather useless if Relic was intending on having it chase snipers.

Possible Fix for Kubelwagon
1. Remove Surpression

2. 40-80 More Health (Requires Testing to find a good value)

3. Increase range slightly and damage allow the unit to fire on the move (similar to Soviet M3 or American WC51 Dodge Jeep)

4. New Vet 1 Ability - Surpressive Fire Mode - Has a Setup Time 2.0-3.0 (would require testing to find a good balanced number)seconds and locks the unit in place (think Kv2) while locked down the unit will surpress and gain slightly improved survivablity (maybe more frontal armor or health)

5. Needs cost increase. Maybe give it Fuel cost of 5-10 to discourage spamming.

Reasons for these changes
- Adding a mobile MG on wheels is difficult to balance. Currently the unit is underperforming. Adding direct buffs would make the unit too strong in the early game. To avoid Maxim spam 2.0 I would propose removing the surpression early on and buffing its normal gun. This would allow the unit to deal with M3/Dodge by being able to fire on the move like those units can. Ideally we would want a situation in which the M3/Dodge would think twice about charging a Kubel head on while still being effective vs the kubel. By adding surpression later on and making it into a lockdown type ability, we could avoid situations where the kubel turns slightly and cancels its surpression while also making it stronger. The Setup time would allow it to be flanked as it cannot move while locked down.

With the changes I suggest above this would allow the Kubel to have a longer lasting presence in the game. It would perform like an ungarrisoned M3/Dodge while being able to convert into an MG via lockdown and provide blob control. If Surpressive Fire Mode lockdown gave a Frontal Armor Buff it would have the ability to do some Blob Control like a normal MG can. The lockdown also prevents movement which would allow it to get flanked.

Not sure if this is too crazy of an idea... But what if the Kubelwagen is swapped for MG34 and the Luft and Fort. docs get the Kubelwagen? Of course the MG34 would cost a little bit more, maybe 20-30MP. I'm not sure if it would change too much balance wise considering MG34 is in two doctrines.

The Kubel could also gain a couple of new abilities for each doctrine. For example maybe with Luft after vet 1 it could serve as forward arty observer and call in small arty strike for ~100 munit. And maybe for fortifications it could 'hull down' i.e. put some sandbags infront making it immobile but reducing received damage from small arms fire by 50-60%. Also would increase suppression.

Just an idea...

Don't agree, allow me to explain:
The thing about the Kubelwagen is that it's not a great unit as-is. Swapping it around doctrines and such won't make any difference, instead I would just have an aversion to an entire doctrine rather than to a particular unit.

If however the Kubelwagen is given utility abilities like capturing points that is a great benefit. You don't need to divert your combat infantry to take points that are abandoned by the enemy team, you can use that Kubelwagen instead. The reason for building Kubelwagens then becomes twicefold: to provide suppression whenever in combat, and capturing points that are clearly safe from enemy contact whenever not.

Utility vehicles provide very powerful benefits to armies. One of the most important USF vehicles for instance is, of all things, the Ambulance. The thing is slow, cheap, has no tech required, and yet allows healing and reinforcement in friendly territory, a must for any player. Combine that with another utility unit, the Major, and you have the USF version of the medic truck, except it could also move.
Given the very low armour and fighting capability of the Kubel, shifting its focus towards utility use makes more sense. The OKW already has powerful units for one thing.

Another idea I have on hand is to swap the Salvage abilities from Volksgrenadiers to Kubelwagens.

It's junk if you can't micro the unit. In the hands of a good player it's a pretty nice early game unit.

I'm sure even the CoH1 Wehr Officer could be useful in the right hands...but that doesn't make it a good unit.

It could use some utility. A point capture (or just decap), or the ability to set up mines, or perhaps an ammo upgrade to get better plating increasing armor or HP. It's a pretty nice little unit but it does fall off hard midgame where pretty much anything can 1-shot it.

Getting more range, either as part of an ability or veterancy, would also help.

It doesn't need big buffs, just a little love.

i think the problem with kubels is the way suppression works. a suppressed squad cant do much damage to a normal mg squad because suppression lowers accuracy by 75%. it also raises cooldown and reload times, but thats much less significant. the lower accuracy alone cuts the dps to only 1/4.

the problem is, kubels are vehicles with a target size. this pretty much negates the entire accuracy penalty, and squads will still hit a kubel almost 100% of the time. having 4 armor helps this, but doesnt change the fact that a suppressed squad and an unsupressed squad deal almost the same amount of damage to the kubel.

this.

1. Even if I use the reversebutton this piece of shit moves a bit forward before moving back.

This happens with a lot of vehicles, and it is a pain to deal with it. Specially vehicles with low acceleration.

Depending on a map a Kübelwagen is very strong. Road to Charkhov as an example.
With one Kübelwagen & sturmpioneer squad I usually manages to harass the enemy to a extent that forces him to pull off his whole force just to clear his cut off point. Meanwhile my volks can cap the whole map.

The sturmpio + Kübel combo is really strong in early game, unless you face a dodge or an m3.

A lot of people mention here that you will eventually lose and in that way it's wasted manpower compared to a volks squad.
That's only partly true. You eventually will lose it, but it doesn't bleed manpower like a squad that needs reinforcement all the time.

What is everyone's thoughts on the Kubelwagon at the moment? Personally I feel that the kubelwagon tries to do too many things at once and doesn't do anything well and lacks a clear specified role. Here are some things I would like to see Changed -

1. Movement Issues -Give the unit the ability to move like the Schwimmwagen from Coh 1. The way the unit moves now currently feels like the old whermacht motorbike in which it lunges forward first before being able to move backwards.

2. Veterancy - The XP requirements should be lowered. Currently it is impossible to get a Max vet Kubelwagon in a normal game. Why have a unit go up to vet 5 if it could never reach it?

3. Proper Role - Currently OKW have some issues with current Maxim Spam. Instead of nerfing the maxim (which is fine vs whermact) I would rather see the Kubelwagon lose its surpression(or gained later via vet) and become a counter to MGs. In Coh 1 flanking an MG with a Jeeps/Bikes could be used to counter MGs (at the very least do some damage) Currently if you flank an MG with the Kubelwagon it will tickle it while it sets up again.

Nerf Kubels surpress ability...

Kubel needs a brabus engine improve..

Soo can put some armor on it !!!