USF Recon Doctrine Commander

I tried couple of time Reco company and it is a bit like a joke to play them.


They lack of big units that make the difference at some tiers make it really difficult to imagine how the commander can bring something useful to your regular troops.

Forwarded Observer 1CP. I don't really know why this ability is at 1CP since it doesn't bring much in term of power to riflesquads, it is not like they become furtive while in cover and not moving or get a special ability that can do the difference in a combat.
It comes too late to be effective vs sturmpio in the early game and is redundant with Pathfinder later.
The effectiveness of observer only occurs while in cover and not moving, but you are always moving with you rifles. This ability requires a ton of micro, going from a cover to another, way the ability to start so you can see further, and again jump to the next cover etc...

IR PathFinders 2CP. Pathfinders with a barrage ability do the same job as the Major. I have the feeling they are only here because of Paratroops so you can deploy the reinforcement box.

M8 3CP. This M8 is a joke - it is an 100% AI unit. I'm not sure if it can even damage the OKW half-truk. His only utility and ability is the canister shot. It is a really poor version of the COH one.
As I imagine it as a T2 AI units, his strength is between the utility car and the half-track so I believed the idea behind the unit was to skip T2 and go T3.

Air Recon 4CP. Nothing to say, air recon is always a good ability. By the way did you know the Major has it already? Relic loves redundancy some time.

Airdrop combat group 7CP. Two Para squads and an AT. The AT is still coming with no crew so do not expect to send it far away from your base. And since paras are coming with random weapons, it is not like you can be sure to get what you wanted...

M8 and Airdrop abilities scale terribly badly. So or I'm wrong or there is something wrong with it designs. M8 is a T2 unit with no AT power, and somehow, makes you directly go T3 to pump out an AT gun and Stuarts because you need AT. I'm fine with that and in fact M8 + stuart are doing good together.
But next, your 7CP abilities, which come really late are also composed of T3 units. A At gun empty and 2 small para squads with bazooka or SMG or LMG. It is not like you will be able to make the difference with them, 7CP is too late for paratroops, half of squads on the field are Vet2 at least when you get them, they will be raped by any of them. the AT gun also come late and is terribly redundant with your T3 + captain ability. At least it needs to come with crewmen so you can deploy it far from your base with Para in cover.

What can be modify:
M8 being AI + AT for an highest cost. Make it able to deal with half-truk and Puma as in COH. So USF player can decide if he wants to play T2 or T3.
AT gun deployed with a crew.

My biggest gripe is the IR pathfinder's artillery range. It is the main reason to build it, but you can't call it in without putting this fragile squad into harms way since it's the same range as their guns.

They basically need to walk into a bunker's mg to call it and will be never be able to use it against the flak HQ since it outright outranges them and will kill them before they can get close enough.

They need to increase it's range so you can use it to clear defenses. Otherwise you are better off just using the majors strike since he doesn't have to throw himself into gunfire to call it in.

I think all paradrop weapon teams should be manned with a crew, because it is always so tedious to have to divert micro in manning a weapon w RE's then reinforcing them...

Just defeats the purpose of the convenience of para dropping:/

I think all paradrop weapon teams should be manned with a crew, because it is always so tedious to have to divert micro in manning a weapon w RE's then reinforcing them...

Just defeats the purpose of the convenience of para dropping:/

This man tells the truth. They have no combat utility and are only good to skip tech for a larger manpower cost.

And, despite the commander saying so, aren't those I&R Pathfinder's only unlocked at 3cp?? Plus they only have 3 men in the squad..

And, despite the commander saying so, aren't those I&R Pathfinder's only unlocked at 3cp?? Plus they only have 3 men in the squad..

Correct.

Commander really needs to be taken a second look at

Airdrop combat group is the only thing out of place.
Its paras should NOT drop with thompsons(they still got 3 and no ability) and either the gun should come with the crew or shouldn't come in at all and the price of call-in should be cut.

As long as it comes with empty AT gun you either need to flank first anyway, which cancels the point of paradrop unless you want to donate free AT gun to your opponent or call them next to your own forces, which again, cancels the point of paradrop.

My biggest gripe is the IR pathfinder's artillery range. It is the main reason to build it, but you can't call it in without putting this fragile squad into harms way since it's the same range as their guns.

They basically need to walk into a bunker's mg to call it and will be never be able to use it against the flak HQ since it outright outranges them and will kill them before they can get close enough.

They need to increase it's range so you can use it to clear defenses. Otherwise you are better off just using the majors strike since he doesn't have to throw himself into gunfire to call it in.

The pathfinder artillery is FAR superior to the major's artillery. The range may be shorter, but the delay is short enough that you can pretty much guarantee that if a squad isn't immediately retreated it will die (especially if it's a setup team or in a building). It's honestly the one thing the doctrine has going for it.

Forward observer is good when you can get it to work. However, the conditions are too harsh that it's never practical. "In cover" seems to mean the entire squad has to be in cover.

I&R pathfinders are basically major squads. The doctrine description lies though. They come out at 3cp for some unfathomable reason. I'm also pretty sure they don't get the criticals airborne pathfinders get on their guns which is a shame.

Greyhound is an AI vehicle that can moonlight as light AT if it has buddies. It's part of why I always go captain. Either the captain squad maims the vehicle and the greyhound swoops in, or a stuart stunlocks the vehicle and the greyhound supports.

Recon sweep is recon sweep. The only thing in the entire doctrine that works as intended without any bugs imo.

Airdrooped combat group is simultaneously amazing and terrible. Recon Support Company is a very very very muntion heavy doctrine. Getting 180-240 muntions worth of squad weapons is a god send when you're up against the late game nazi horde. A discount AT gun isn't all that bad either. Paratrooper support squads have some bugs though. No veterancy description, they still only get 3 thompsons, thompsons don't give the sprint ability, and I'm pretty sure the fortification ability is different from normal paratroopers (might be intentional).

Airdrop combat group is the only thing out of place.
Its paras should NOT drop with thompsons(they still got 3 and no ability) and either the gun should come with the crew or shouldn't come in at all and the price of call-in should be cut.

As long as it comes with empty AT gun you either need to flank first anyway, which cancels the point of paradrop unless you want to donate free AT gun to your opponent or call them next to your own forces, which again, cancels the point of paradrop.

Wait what?

I thought the patch let them have 4 thompsons if upgraded. Is it just bugged for this commander or did the patch just not go through for paratroopers?

Combat group paratroopers are different then normal ones, you don't upgrade them, but they drop with random upgrades, they don't even have timed demo charge(or vet description, for my native version at least), the change didn't affected them.

Honestly, I got this commander, and I find it great in 2v2 games where your ally has a katyusha/ other long range fire support. As the name of the doctrine states, it is a "support" company, and I find that the M8 greyhound (especially at vet 1) is a great unit to scout defenses with, but I think it needs the hold fire ability. One other small change I would like to see is a revision of the I&R pathfinders to be a 1-2 man squad with the ability to camouflage out of cover for short distances like the ostheer sniper. Thoughts?

Honestly, I got this commander, and I find it great in 2v2 games where your ally has a katyusha/ other long range fire support. As the name of the doctrine states, it is a "support" company, and I find that the M8 greyhound (especially at vet 1) is a great unit to scout defenses with, but I think it needs the hold fire ability. One other small change I would like to see is a revision of the I&R pathfinders to be a 1-2 man squad with the ability to camouflage out of cover for short distances like the ostheer sniper. Thoughts?

yea i suggested the 2 man camouflaged squad too, 4 man is a pain to hide and those 2 carbine dudes are pretty useless.
They should probably also be 0 CP as it was proposed for the normal pathfinders. These come with a 140 MU artillerie barrage and 20 MU fake one. The 140 won't be used any time before 2 CPs anyways and the fake one won't see much use since people would expect it's fake at this point in the game. Really no reasons to keep it at 2.
In any cases, some of the problem from this commander are related to the one of the airborn (which i made a pretty extensive post about).

yea i suggested the 2 man camouflaged squad too, 4 man is a pain to hide and those 2 carbine dudes are pretty useless.
They should probably also be 0 CP as it was proposed for the normal pathfinders. These come with a 140 MU artillerie barrage and 20 MU fake one. The 140 won't be used any time before 2 CPs anyways and the fake one won't see much use since people would expect it's fake at this point in the game. Really no reasons to keep it at 2.
In any cases, some of the problem from this commander are related to the one of the airborn (which i made a pretty extensive post about).

The worst part is that the I&R pathfinders are a 3 man squad with no "sniper crit" and actually comes out at CP 3. (The commander highlight lies)

Does the iR pathfinder gain the same vet bonuses as regular pathfinders?
Something I have wondered about for a while

The worst part is that the I&R pathfinders are a 3 man squad with no "sniper crit" and actually comes out at CP 3. (The commander highlight lies)

No sniper crit? oh wow that's pretty terrible.
They recently added one thompson and improved the skill the airborn gets with it. Which is nice, this might show they did read my post. So maybe we will see a pathfinder change down the line since it also was a big part of my post.

Airdrop combat group is the only thing out of place.
Its paras should NOT drop with thompsons(they still got 3 and no ability) and either the gun should come with the crew or shouldn't come in at all and the price of call-in should be cut.

As long as it comes with empty AT gun you either need to flank first anyway, which cancels the point of paradrop unless you want to donate free AT gun to your opponent or call them next to your own forces, which again, cancels the point of paradrop.

This commander is too weak I agree but what are you saying about the paradrop?


If it came fully crewed, would you drop it on a flank or behind enemy lines? You'd be gifting them an AT gun + Exp.


Being uncrewed does not cancel the point of a paradrop. The point is convenience, not having to use build ime + move time to the front. Just insta-gun! Drop it near your ambulance, crew it and reinforce.



Stil, this commander has some weak point. No sniper-crits on pathfinders?

This commander is too weak I agree but what are you saying about the paradrop?


If it came fully crewed, would you drop it on a flank or behind enemy lines? You'd be gifting them an AT gun + Exp.


Being uncrewed does not cancel the point of a paradrop. The point is convenience, not having to use build ime + move time to the front. Just insta-gun! Drop it near your ambulance, crew it and reinforce.



Stil, this commander has some weak point. No sniper-crits on pathfinders?

It is still 800 MP for 1 and half squad + a 3 man AT gun. When being behind the enemy line, the last thing you whant is to start with fewer man for more MP.
I can't say i agree with it being for convinience, i think it's just a side effect of it being paradropped. It's main goal (since vCoH) was to build smalls defences pockets on the flanks or behind behind the enemy line. The huge cost of it makes it terrible for front line duty, i'd much rather get it from the base.

If it came fully crewed, would you drop it on a flank or behind enemy lines? You'd be gifting them an AT gun + Exp.


Being uncrewed does not cancel the point of a paradrop. The point is convenience, not having to use build ime + move time to the front. Just insta-gun! Drop it near your ambulance, crew it and reinforce.



Stil, this commander has some weak point. No sniper-crits on pathfinders?

I don't believe the commander is weak.

Its not suitable for team games and maybe even 2v2, but its solid in 1v1 if you go T1, M20+greyhound and bazookas.

I would like to use paradrop on the backlines, because I believe that is the purpose of paradrop in the first place. The AT gun prevents me. I am either donating it to enemy if I want to use them behind the lines or I'm severely crippling my ability to defend it if I have to sacrifice half of para squad to crew it. Having another squad there first before the drop completely kills the point of paradrop, because why would I want it, if I need to flank/get behind anyway first and I could do that with cheaper rifles?

If I was to drop it near ambulance, why would I pick the doctrine over airborne in the first place that allows for superior paratroopers and doesn't enforce me to get AT gun?

Pathfinders are fine, they deliver deadly arty barrage that doesn't have huge delay as major one they could be 4 man squad thou.

Pathfinders are fine, they deliver deadly arty barrage that doesn't have huge delay as major one they could be 4 man squad thou.

I would prefer if the pathfinders were a 2 man unit with a German sniper cloak or with the ability to para-drop from a plane. This would make more sense in terms of what pathfinders did in real life, and would give them the added utility of actually being an infiltration unit.

I would prefer if the pathfinders were a 2 man unit with a German sniper cloak or with the ability to para-drop from a plane. This would make more sense in terms of what pathfinders did in real life, and would give them the added utility of actually being an infiltration unit.

I agree with most of your post and suggested them before for the airborn company, but the problem with the plane is that it's a giant giveaway as to what you will do and that you currently have a unit infiltrating (which you probably don't whant them to know).
For the realistic part, you could see it as them being dropped close to the drop zone (just outside the map) and the zone they whant to pin point is on the map.
That's how i'd see it, because i'd hate to tell my enemy with bells and whistles that i am airborn and currently iniltrating a unit.