Maxims vs the OKW

Those are not the counters to maxims. they are useful in supporting the actual counters but they cannot counter maxims by themselves.

If snipers and infantry spawning on the back of them are not counters for you, then you do have a problem.
Big one.

What is a counter for you? 2 clicks and squad wiped frontally? Because it seems like that is exactly what you want, seeing how you disregard all hard counters as no counters.

Let me tell you this: denial about hard counters doesn't make them any less of a hard counter.

It's a good question, why don't Axis get an early game clown-car too? We'd see less MG spam for sure.


Although I actually wish all clown cars would disappear from T0 and T1 >:/


Katitof, you wrote a list of medium counters, not hard counters. Hard counters are things which not only kill something effectively but are also invulnerable to damage/damage type. Like Tank hardcounters infantry.

Mortars and inf guns only medium counter maxims because they're not so drastically effective. Elite infantry can be suppressed by HMGs too.

I tought the best counter to mg's was smoke?

I tought the best counter to mg's was smoke?

Okw have no smoke bar Puma and during Assault Artillery, neither are viable vs Maxims

yeh, I was only replying to the last couple of posts asking for a light vehicle ala dodge, m3 to counter maxims

i'd prefer having smoke

If snipers and infantry spawning on the back of them are not counters for you, then you do have a problem.
Big one.

What is a counter for you? 2 clicks and squad wiped frontally? Because it seems like that is exactly what you want, seeing how you disregard all hard counters as no counters.

Let me tell you this: denial about hard counters doesn't make them any less of a hard counter.

Bugalov already explained the difference between hard and soft counters. and 2 clicks to wipe a squad is the hallmark of a hardcounters.hardcounters for the maxim are long range dps or AI vehicles.

for the okw that means obers and luchs.

for the ost it means grens spam with lmgs and 222.

These are not available from the start and it does cause some problems early game as the maxim is perfectly able to absorb grenades because it has extra man.

AT guns cannot retreat. Another support weapons can. Simply take away retreat from mortars and HMG. This help much versus HMG spam on both side.

Kubels would be a good idea to buff to beat weapon teams, sadly a kubel flanking a maxim will die faster to the rifle crewmen of the Maxim than it can kill them. That or the maxim will just turn on it then laugh at it.

Even if it's a Muni upgrade to give Kubel some armour and better DPS on the move, I'd love to see its Suppression DPS on the move, minus the suppression. Only problem then is the Kubels Pathfinding.

Just order your Volks to run frontaly into the maxim at the same time they move his arms and shout some obscene words to the mg gunner, while your Sturmpios sit behind the mg unit and brutaly murder the crew. Even with a scuad of cons supporting the maxim probably you gonna force to retreat the enemy mg.

It's a good question, why don't Axis get an early game clown-car too? We'd see less MG spam for sure.


Although I actually wish all clown cars would disappear from T0 and T1 >:/


Katitof, you wrote a list of medium counters, not hard counters. Hard counters are things which not only kill something effectively but are also invulnerable to damage/damage type. Like Tank hardcounters infantry.

Mortars and inf guns only medium counter maxims because they're not so drastically effective. Elite infantry can be suppressed by HMGs too.

they do, the mg car. You can build it from the start, and you dont have to buy the car and the mg crew seperately.

they do, the mg car. You can build it from the start, and you dont have to buy the car and the mg crew seperately.

Yeah bulgakov, you silly, its pure logic, how we did not think of this before?

they do, the mg car. You can build it from the start, and you dont have to buy the car and the mg crew seperately.

You can't put troops in the Kuebelwagen. Kuebel dies fast to allied cars.

OKW early game options vs Sniper/MGS openings >>



Mgs are fine in 1vs1, its just OKW that need some tweaking as the other factions all have some decent counters. Mgs unsupported are not the biggest problem for OKW but once you start support mgs with shocks, mines, demos on strategic points, zis guns to counter early OKW armor or rush for T34s to counter stukas/luchs/flak ht. Once mg spammer combine all that, OKW have basicly no effective counter. Same problem with sniper openings, once combined very hard to counter and turn into cat and mouse play where OKW are running around the map trying to keep some map control and avoid any direct confrontation. Mg/sniper openings (early game) should be "high reward/high risk" not "high reward/low risk".

OKW armor are very predictable to counter because they have no medium tank that have both AT and AI. To get a hard counter against mg openings OKW need to invest approx. 150 fuel into stuka first (less fuel income) or T4 into luchs which all delay your first AT armor by alot. Investing to much fuel into AI armor are very risky because soviet can then just spam T34s or get a Kv8.

Rather than nerfing mgs or buff OKW performance I think best solution are to give OKW new options to flank in the early game which also should make it more risky to use mg/sniper openings.

OKW Early Game - flanking buffs

1) Give sturmpioniers more vision so they can more easily deal with mgs and snipers. Kubels are mostly useless in the midgame anyway so sturmpioniers could fulfill a niche role here.

2) Jaeger light infantry should get infiltration grenades and/or smoke grenades so they can more easily flank mgs and decrew zis guns.

3) Reduce "Infiltration Tactics" to 2 CPs

4) Give kubels mg AP rounds so they can more easily deal damage to mgs but more importantly kubels need early game options to defend against scout cars and snipers. As atm snipers counter sturmpioniers/at guns, scout cars with flamers counter kubels/volks. So sniper openings turn into cat and mouse play as OKW have no early game counter to that either.
Making the kubel more powerful vs mg/sniper openings should not make them OP vs soviet midgame if mgs/snipers are supported by guards.

Soviet Early Game - need T0 infantry buff

1) Early game cons are to weak against sturmpioniers/kubel combo and later against OKW long range units such as obers/fusiliers. Penals should be moved to T0 so soviet has new early game infantry options to make a more "slow" transitioning into mgs from T2 or snipers from T1. Since Relic have made T0 infantry spam more popular with the new factions there are no longer a good reason to keep penals in T1. Personal im no fan of T0 infantry spam but its to late now going in the opposite direction thx to the new faction design.

Something similar to this is all thats needed to deal with snipers/mgs openings.

Heres a replay of Maxim and ZIS Spam goinginto Shocktroopers and Heavy Call in Tanks.

Works like a charm. Streak atm with this is 7 or 8 atm.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/22984/state-of-balance

Keep going, soon you'll stop facing clueless scrubs and will see how effective it really is

Keep going, soon you'll stop facing clueless scrubs and will see how effective it really is

hm lets see. ivan has over 1000 games as soviets and still spams maxims. is he still facing scrubs or is it that maybe theyre actually effective?

hm lets see. ivan has over 1000 games as soviets and still spams maxims. is he still facing scrubs or is it that maybe theyre actually effective?

In case of players like Ivan its a little bit more then just the unit itself.
I don't see you, me or the guy above us to get into top 10, maxim spam or not.
And on a related note, he fails miserably with dual sniper strats that are equally renowned/dreaded.

Wat. Seriously, wat.

Maxim spam looks silly. It's an unfortunate side effect of poor faction design as I see it. I wish it would change, but that's not in our hands as we all know.