OKW Panther

175 (265) Fuel for OKW panther

Could we not do this? If there was no scavenge and no resource conversion the OKW Panther would STILL cost as much as a Wehr Panther, and rightfully so. The scarcity of fuel functions to temper the quantity and availability of OKW units in the field, not their effectiveness.

I don't get you people. You can take almost 3 T-34/76 at once with Panther and you complain about it? Position yourself correctly and you will be able to win every engagement.
In 1v1 I had US player attacking me with like 6 Shermans and I managed to win this engagement with the help of Rocket AT.
You say OKW is fuel starved but only because it got mechanics to negate this. If you're not using salvage or resource conversion than who you got to blame?


Check this replay and see how many tanks I managed to field:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  commiepig Smigi

  SSOSSO Oz

  22-0 (Germany vs Brazil :D)

  by: OZtheWiZARD map: Minsk Pocket

  5

  -

It was 2v2, I know, but still.


Damn, there was a patch. I don't think this one is working anymore.

Use salvage ? If you can salvage at maximum 2 vehicles per game its OMFG 10 FUEL WOOOOOOOOO. Please just stop arguing about balance when you clearly say as many constructive things as katitof... Panther need a cost decrease, its effectiveness is good, its speed compensate, it should maybe get just a bit of armor against t34/85.

Ressource conversion dont convert a lot and you need a certain tech path to get it = no healing for your infantry (good luck)

14 minutes if you're playing against a dead chicken maybe. Or build NOTHING that will require fuel + building directly T3 + giving fuel conversion pretty soon. That will leave you with just infantry on the field + 1 panther in the middle game (maybe). Wow, what an army.

I found that against Soviets you can do without fuel for quite a while with "just infantry". OKW infantry is insanely strong, and the only thing that Soviets have that does some decent damage against OKW infantry are Shock Troops. In which case you won't have to worry about T34-85s. I've opened quite a few times with a medic truck and then don't buy any vehicles at all until the Panther comes.

Use salvage ? If you can salvage at maximum 2 vehicles per game its OMFG 10 FUEL WOOOOOOOOO. Please just stop arguing about balance when you clearly say as many constructive things as katitof... Panther need a cost decrease, its effectiveness is good, its speed compensate, it should maybe get just a bit of armor against t34/85.

Ressource conversion dont convert a lot and you need a certain tech path to get it = no healing for your infantry (good luck)

Umm, you do realize that you can salvage HMGs, mortars, AT guns and their wrecks as well, right?
If you are fighting T2 heavy soviets, we're talking a buff of 20-60 fuel here if you can wipe weapon crews.

The only things you can not salvage are things like flamethrowers, LMGs, shrecks ect.

Am I the only one who is a little disappointed with the inclusion of this unit?

I think it's really dependent on gamesize and player preference. If you take a look at for example ImperialDane, he dislikes the Puma and hates the Jagdpanzer/Jagdtiger. I on the other hand agree with you, that Puma (vs Soviets) or Jagdpanzer (vs USF) are sufficient. I don't need to spent an additional 35 fuel (and similar MP) to get a Panther who then performs worse against Jacksons than the Jagdpanzer. I rarely tech to T4 and if I do, then usually for the Sturmtiger and the Obersoldaten, not the Panther.

Use salvage ? If you can salvage at maximum 2 vehicles per game its OMFG 10 FUEL WOOOOOOOOO. Please just stop arguing about balance when you clearly say as many constructive things as katitof... Panther need a cost decrease, its effectiveness is good, its speed compensate, it should maybe get just a bit of armor against t34/85.

Ressource conversion dont convert a lot and you need a certain tech path to get it = no healing for your infantry (good luck)

I play almost exclusively OKW recently so yes, I know what I am talking about. T2 is an investment. It delays your tanks for few minutes but you are going to get much better economical income latter. There is no reason not to get all trucks as OKW. It's 40 fuel for 2nd and 3rd and 80 for the last one.
Salvage may be only 10 fuel, I didn't check it exactly but it's 10 fuel ON TOP of your regular income and it DOES make a different. As I said OKW got plenty ways to negate fuel shortage. You need to do well though. It's a "snow ball effect" faction. The more things you kill and salvage, the more potent your end game will be.
That game I posted? I had total of 4 PzIV J, 2 Panthers and 2 PzII. All that with this suposed to be fuel starved faction.
BTW. Fire shell (or something) you get with this Elite commander it's amazing.

Umm, you do realize that you can salvage HMGs, mortars, AT guns and their wrecks as well, right?
If you are fighting T2 heavy soviets, we're talking a buff of 20-60 fuel here if you can wipe weapon crews.

The only things you can not salvage are things like flamethrowers, LMGs, shrecks ect.

Woopie 5 more fuel it doesnt change the fact that the panther is a steaming pile of shit. if you want to counter vehicles and medium armor then 2 puma's will suffice and perform way better then the panther. if you really do need something to spearhead an assault is suggest you wait a bit and get the kt out.

The panther needs a fuel decrease to 140 before i consider touching it again.

Then I guess you'll have to spam P4s, pumas and tigers until the end of times.

If you want a panther, just pump one out- OKW Has almost unparalleled freedom to get what they want when they want it. You just have to be very certain what you want- your unit choice is limited, every one has to count.

Hey everyone! Turns out we were wrong about OKW, apparently, if you play correctly, you can get whatever you want when you want it. No crippling economy, no fuel limitations. Just l2p guyz, kthxbai.

And you know he's right 'cos of his playercard http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198000914802

"OKW HAS ALMOST UNPARALLELED FREEDOM!"

Hey everyone! Turns out we were wrong about OKW, apparently, if you play correctly, you can get whatever you want when you want it. No crippling economy, no fuel limitations. Just l2p guyz, kthxbai.

And you know he's right 'cos of his playercard http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198000914802

"OKW HAS ALMOST UNPARALLELED FREEDOM!"

What a joke. No wonder his balance suggestions are always terrible. It's not just because he only plays Soviet and US, but because he primarily plays 4v4.....

What a joke. No wonder his balance suggestions are always terrible. It's not just because he only plays Soviet and US, but because he primarily plays 4v4.....

I'm rank 10 at soviet 2v2, below rank 50 at OKW and USF, and that's not good enough for you?

The only fraction I don't play is Ost, because it bores me to tears since the beta.

I offer balance based on my 2v2 observations. I enjoy 4v4. Good for me.

But as I said- OKW can have whichever buildings they want up fairly quickly. Their economy is not so doomed you can't have what you want- and the point is you're not locked into a linear progression of vehicles. You have got the freedom to pick and choose which armour you want and in what order, rather than have the soviet locking of tiers or ost linear progression. USF is similar, but has less viable vehicle options.

Just be aware you get limited vehicles. As I said.

I'm rank 10 at soviet 2v2, below rank 50 at OKW and USF, and that's not good enough for you?

The only fraction I don't play is Ost, because it bores me to tears since the beta.

I offer balance based on my 2v2 observations. I enjoy 4v4. Good for me.

But as I said- OKW can have whichever buildings they want up fairly quickly. Their economy is not so doomed you can't have what you want- and the point is you're not locked into a linear progression of vehicles. You have got the freedom to pick and choose which armour you want and in what order, rather than have the soviet locking of tiers or ost linear progression. USF is similar, but has less viable vehicle options.

Just be aware you get limited vehicles. As I said.

2vs2 is a very different game then 1vs1.

2vs2 is a very different game then 1vs1.

Yes it is. It has a higher skill ceiling, for a start ;P

But seriously. It's not hard to examine any player critically for a moment and figure what they focus on. 2v2 is my shindig.

But I want to see both balanced, and if a change to a 1v1 viability makes 2v2 (and invariably up) start to get thrown off, I'd be rather disappointed.

Yes it is. It has a higher skill ceiling, for a start ;P

But seriously. It's not hard to examine any player critically for a moment and figure what they focus on. 2v2 is my shindig.

But I want to see both balanced, and if a change to a 1v1 viability makes 2v2 (and invariably up) start to get thrown off, I'd be rather disappointed.

Very true. stuff should be balanced and in this case the panther has no real effect on 1vs1 or 2vs2. even so however the current panther is simply not balanced. right now it has decent hp good armor and penetration but very low dps. if you look at the kv1 it is a decent all rounder but it doesnt cost 175 fuel.

In either case you get much more from the puma ,jagd or kt then the panther

the panther should have some anti infantry potential. It should be as effective as the old PIV with 7.5 scatter againts infantry.

Very true. stuff should be balanced and in this case the panther has no real effect on 1vs1 or 2vs2. even so however the current panther is simply not balanced. right now it has decent hp good armor and penetration but very low dps. if you look at the kv1 it is a decent all rounder but it doesnt cost 175 fuel.

In either case you get much more from the puma ,jagd or kt then the panther

It also has much, much more pen and 10 more range than the KV-1.

The panther is potent mix of traits. It has the armour of a low end heavy, the range of a TD, the HP pool of a heavy end medium tank and the usual german option for pintle MG's.

The buff to small arms has made the panther able to do something, at least, for AI- but it remains a great anti-tank option against mediums and TD's- and can also weather some infantry based AT in the process, which the puma simply can't do.

Pumas remain so good because of how cripplingly amazingly god tier Target Weak Point/Aimed shot are, as abilities. It's guard buttoning you can't interrupt and doesn't need a squishy infantry squad standing next to the tank to use.

Jagds are the usual turretless TD trade of firepower for mobility and flank death.

But panthers already give you everything you need to completely mop up medium armour. Fastest, heaviest armoured medium with great range- it's all you need to deal with any number of T-34/76. Allowing that firepower to come cheaper would invariably start pushing us back towards the good old days of beta panther rolling, which I certainly wouldn't want anyone to suffer through.

It could probably use a small accuracy buff to make the most of the low rate of fire, of course. A reduction on the penalty for moving would probably serve it best. After that, it's probably good where it is; a small AI buff probably wouldn't hurt make the cost a little more justified, I guess.

He, the Panther. Its cute, I want to like it. I occasionally build one in 2v2. Afterwards, after having been almost invariably badly punished for it I tend to be cured of such folly for a long time, until the memory fades and I get adventurous again. Rinse and repeat. Seriously, the Panther is among the most generally inefficient units in the game, and as said, represents such a huge fuel commitment for OKW that it shuts out virtually every other option.

Seems ironic to me that the Panther was meant to be a cost effective vehicle in real life, but in game is the least cost effective in its class.

Seems ironic to me that the Panther was meant to be a cost effective vehicle in real life, but in game is the least cost effective in its class.

It wasn't really cost effective given how much resources, money and over engineering was pumped into it.

It wasn't as expensive as tiger, but it was far from cost effective in other sense then being able to knock tanks out from safe distance.

And guess what, IRL when you have compared its cost and performance, it was still much more expensive then allied tanks.

Or you just don't know how to use it.
OKW one with combat blitz is even better than OH one.