Riflemen eating Volks!

I dont think it would be very good if okw could have a 240 unit that beats 280 units. BUT

The balance between these units should be very similar(if not the same) to Penals Versus grens. Grens win at long,and some of the time at mid,while penals win everywhere else(without flamethrower or LMG42 for either squad)

I dont think it would be very good if okw could have a 240 unit that beats 280 units. BUT

The balance between these units should be very similar(if not the same) to Penals Versus grens. Grens win at long,and some of the time at mid,while penals win everywhere else(without flamethrower or LMG42 for either squad)

Pretty much this.

That and Rifles shouldn't just be able to charge through no/red cover at a squad in green and just win.

I think it's ok for the 280 mp squad to win on equal footing against volks, and annihilate them if volks charge them in cover.

I do find it stupid though when rifles go past red cover into volks and still beat them.

i think they need a small drop in close range dps, apart from that they barely outshoot volks at range. it is their point blank that really rapes other rifle units hard.

that said, 60muni for a single bar is kinda expensive aint it?

that said, 60muni for a single bar is kinda expensive aint it?

No.
Ostheer pays the same amount for its infantry units upgrade (in addition, 2 months ago they would pay 60 amo even for 2 G43s which was not such a big deal).
I didn't see this cost creating problems while aiming for an indestructible USA blob build, so I don't think any of USA infantry weapons need to be cheaper.

It is good that riflemen destroy volks at short/mid range as it prevents volk/gren spam. However, I do believe volks need a slight buff for long range engagements to ensure they come out ahead a bit more frequently.

The doctrinal LMG rifle should be limited to 1 per squad though I believe. It is incredibly good that weapon, especially when tied in with the suprresion ability.

Asides from that I think the volk and rifles are fine. Good volk placement with solid sturmpioneer ambushes can turn engagements fast in OKW favour.

+ Volks are becoming a bit beastly at vet3+.

I think key is to keep them at distance and have Sturmpioneer squad ready to greet closing in troops.

I think Volks are okay as they are. After watching and playing some games as OKW I've come to the conclusion that every tier 1 unit has to be used in conjunction with another.

For example, if you are going to be using Volksgrenadiers you need to have another unit nearby, whether that be Sturmpioneers or another Volks squad, I've seen so many players use one Volks against one Rifleman squad and are surprised by the outcome. Of course Volks will lose, Riflemen cost more and have better weapons. Flanking a Rifle squad with a Sturmpioneer or another Volks seems to do the trick.

I find the whole point of Volksgrenadiers is to allow them to survive until the 15 - 20 minute mark, there they should have at least vet 3 which is a huge problem for USF. Riflemen are meant to win early engagements, but Volks come back bigger, better and stronger.

And what makes you believe volks should stand up to them?

You are supposed to sit behind cover at all times with volks(no cover is no excuse, you can make it yourself) and support them with other squads and Kubel/sturmpios.

They didn't worked alone in vCoH, they won't work alone here.

They are basically axis version of conscripts, except volks do scale into late game.

Use multitude of doctrinal infantry or go for ubersoldaten.

They didn't worked alone in vCoH, they won't work alone here.

You're an idiot.

They didn't worked alone in vCoH, they won't work alone here.

You're an idiot.

You either have quoted wrong post, or need a medical attention ASAP as you might be loosing it.

+1 million sir! all these god damn morons spouting garbage "rifles are not OP" LOLZ living in dreamland! Relic have to nerf em or game will be dead within weeks, totally broken atm, FACT!

My riflemen die easily enough if I'm not careful. perhaps your issue lies between chair and keyboard.

My riflemen die easily enough if I'm not careful. perhaps your issue lies between chair and keyboard.

Well, yes, they do. However, unlike Volks, they have an insane damage output, and its even worse against Ostheer. Grens are pretty hopeless against them. Nota bene, I am not saying Rifles are OP as such. 1919s ie. however need to be looked at.

1. CoH2 is not vCoH.
2. If Riflemen (Infantry unit) can charge in brainlessly and win, why not any of the Assault units I listed?

You missed the point, think outside the box for just a moment of your life. If you can have diverse armies in one game of the same franchise it can be applicable to the second installment. You can have armies that excel in early game, close range units vs longer range units that depend more heavily on cover and still have a good dynamic balanced game. It's a l2p issue for you it sounds.

2. I don't leave my volks unsupported and expect to beat a more powerful and expensive core infantry unit; that's a tad more brainless don't you think? This situation is incredible unique to the moment, were your volks completely stationary behind the best cover? Were they left unsupported? Did the rifles have upgrades? Were you charging at rifles and tried to close a distance on a more effective close range unit? Etc etc. They're not SUPPOSED to beat rifles, but with proper positioning and the right situation, they can. That's the whole point of them, cheap meat shield infantry until you tech to get something with some punch. US has a good early game.

Also, if anything is ACTUALLY broken or imbalanced vs the match-up, it's probably volley fire.

help, panzergrenadiers are beating my conscripts. PGRENS OP NERF PLZ...

340 mp unit beating 240 mp unit? blaspemy. Broken game. I am quitingg..

You missed the point, think outside the box for just a moment of your life. If you can have diverse armies in one game of the same franchise it can be applicable to the second installment. You can have armies that excel in early game, close range units vs longer range units that depend more heavily on cover and still have a good dynamic balanced game. It's a l2p issue for you it sounds.

2. I don't leave my volks unsupported and expect to beat a more powerful and expensive core infantry unit; that's a tad more brainless don't you think? This situation is incredible unique to the moment, were your volks completely stationary behind the best cover? Were they left unsupported? Did the rifles have upgrades? Were you charging at rifles and tried to close a distance on a more effective close range unit? Etc etc. They're not SUPPOSED to beat rifles, but with proper positioning and the right situation, they can. That's the whole point of them, cheap meat shield infantry until you tech to get something with some punch. US has a good early game.

Also, if anything is ACTUALLY broken or imbalanced vs the match-up, it's probably volley fire.

You want to compare CoH2 to vCoH and you're saying I'm the one that needs to think outside the box? Bringing vCoH into a CoH2 argument is about as in-the-box as you can be. Charging in blindly isn't how you should play, and if it's working, something is wrong between either Volksgrenadiers or Riflemen.

Burts sums it up quite well. Some people kept saying PG's should never get buffed because they're not supposed to charge in guns blazing. Now some of those same people are saying it's perfectly okay for Riflemen to charge in because they're more expensive than Volks, even though the cost and tech disparity of Conscripts vs Panzergrenadiers is much larger than Riflemen vs Volks. Speaking of, you completely dodged the question.

You want to compare CoH2 to vCoH and you're saying I'm the one that needs to think outside the box? Bringing vCoH into a CoH2 argument is about as in-the-box as you can be. Charging in blindly isn't how you should play, and if it's working, something is wrong between either Volksgrenadiers or Riflemen.

Burts sums it up quite well. Some people kept saying PG's should never get buffed because they're not supposed to charge in guns blazing. Now some of those same people are saying it's perfectly okay for Riflemen to charge in because they're more expensive than Volks, even though the cost and tech disparity of Conscripts vs Panzergrenadiers is much larger than Riflemen vs Volks. Speaking of, you completely dodged the question.

Here since your eyes glazed over I reposted the second half of my post which was the point I "didn't address"

2. I don't leave my volks unsupported and expect to beat a more powerful and expensive core infantry unit; that's a tad more brainless don't you think? This situation is incredible unique to the moment, were your volks completely stationary behind the best cover? Were they left unsupported? Did the rifles have upgrades? Were you charging at rifles and tried to close a distance on a more effective close range unit? Etc etc. They're not SUPPOSED to beat rifles, but with proper positioning and the right situation, they can. That's the whole point of them, cheap meat shield infantry until you tech to get something with some punch. US has a good early game.

Also, if anything is ACTUALLY broken or imbalanced vs the match-up, it's probably volley fire.

Key to good Volks play is to keep them at distance and keep them alive. When they will reach Vet3 (and it's not difficult at all) they will start to show a bit of power and at Vet5 they are true beasts but as always the key is to keep them at max range. Had a lot of success 1 SP + 3 VG squads supported by MG34 into Puma.

Puma is great against Soviet Union. It can deal with everything thay can throw at you. Veted gains speed, damage and penetration (may be wrong here, based on observation rather than statistics). It can take on T-34/76 alone, SU-85 is a joke, I really feel sorry for Soviet player when I see SU-85 and got Puma, but what absolutely stunned me, in a vacuum it can take IS-2 alone (!). IS-2 won't be able to turn it's turret fast enough to hit you. Needs fair micro and right conditions though.
One more thing Pumas are grat against IS-152. Don't build anything else.
Sorry for the Puma offtop.

vCoH 'balance reminders' are not relevant because:

- Oberkommando West does not have an (actually good) MG 42 team in T1
- Volksgrenadiers actually could be Riflemen if it was a long range fight.
- Volksgrenadiers had a good and cheap upgrade to help them stay relevent.

slightly increase the volks dps or reduce the mp cost to 200.