Why this game is almost balanced

My solution:
- Make it impossible for garrisoned units to fire from any loaded unit while it moves.
- Move the FlammenHT back to T2, but make it unable to fire on the move.

This way, the game is much, much simpler to balance - it is way more authentic and it rewards positioning.

Or reduce the dmg on the gun of the m3 and make sure if it gets hit by faust the squad inside loses half its number(which is realistic if a thin skinned truck gets hits by a rocket grenade)...that way they can't charge with flamers with impunity knowing they can get away even with getting fausted and then pop out of the vehicle.

Concerning M3 I think it just needs to take more dmg from small arms fire, especially when up close.

When I play axis I too often see soviet player go really aggressive with flamethrower engi or penal in M3 up close with grenadier squads on low hp or 3< models left.

Too often the gren squad will die or drop to 1 model on low hp from the flamethrower before you can get off a pz faust.

If the pz faust goes off the slowed M3 will still be able to kill the forced into retreat gren model left.

Combining that with mines I too often see myself losing full gren squads early game and to be honest I think this is the biggest problem. Axis is all about preserving those precious gren squads and losing 1 or 2 squads early game really handicaps the ostheer faction.

Thus I think the M3's mobility or dmg taken at close range should be fine tuned. I don't have a problem with the M3, I just have a problem with the way it enables Guards with LMG or flamethrower squads to squad wipe ostheer squads.

Or reduce the dmg on the gun of the m3 and make sure if it gets hit by faust the squad inside loses half its number(which is realistic if a thin skinned truck gets hits by a rocket grenade)...that way they can't charge with flamers with impunity knowing they can get away even with getting fausted and then pop out of the vehicle.

Actually very interesting solution. Make Faust kill squad models inside M3.

Look at what you wrote. Stop polluting the forum, write politely. And if you're so sick of people being unobjective, pls give us a list of your own posts where you complain about soviet units being OP.




I agree with OP. He's not saying the Scout car is an automatic game winner. But it has a huge effect on the game despite being first tier and low priced. The hard counters come much later and require teching and they arrive after their own hard counter is on the field (ATG/Guards)



The main point is, it's not fun to play against I quit for 2 months recently because of this and maxims. I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

I cant resist sometimes. Happens really often lately and i know its not the right behaviour to go with. As for my soviet op list?

ISU and mines. Thats pretty much the only things that are pressing soviet balance issues right now.

But there are people who are so blinded by their bias that it makes me really really angry. I just cant resist then.

Did you ever notice guys that 2 conversations go on in these threads .... one between high level players and another between the rest of us ... which they ignore or are totally lol'ing at.
I'll wait and see what Relic has up their sleeve when the western front hits the scene. I'm in no position to say what the real issues are.

M3a1s need a cost increase or a small nerf as now losing them don't have any impact on soviet teching.

It would be nice to have combined arms used in every game instead of pure spam/abuse strats. Right now I feel that whenever I do combined arms or just get underpowered units I get instantly punished by call-ins and abuse units.

Simple solution to the call in issue that relic have ignored for a long time:

Soviets need T3 or T4 to call in IS-2, ISU, t34/85 etc.

Germans need at least T3 to call in Tiger, Elefant etc.

Simple solution to the call in issue that relic have ignored for a long time:

Soviets need T3 or T4 to call in IS-2, ISU, t34/85 etc.

Germans need at least T3 to call in Tiger, Elefant etc.

wouldnt be T3 required for german call ins unfair? Soviets would have to invest more fuel to get access to their call ins than the germans if im not mistaken..

That is one of the greatest issues, if not the greatest.

The fact that "spam-play" or really low level play in general is rewarded, or at least goes unpunished, which thus often punishes good play. This goes back to a game I played with a friend on Semoskiy, where we had them 'Semois Pinned' and yet they still can get out many T-34s (at least five) and even an ISU-152.

It makes me wonder if those two issues are, in fact, symptoms of a resource system that is also fundamentally flawed. Maybe I'm wrong, but now that every point gives the player fuel and munitions, if said player has been pushed back almost into their base, he / she can sit there and gather resources for a couple minutes until their next attack.

I'd rather comebacks be difficult and challenging than too easy and a common, expected occurrence.

P.S. As for the Soviet Scout Car, being a recon vehicle Relic needs to undo the buffs bestowed on it. It should be fast and nimble, but therefore very vulnerable to any enemy fire. One panzerfaust should kill it to be honest, if not disable it so badly that it's a sitting duck for any amount of small arms fire.

Comebacks are ok, OP units are not. But what unit is OP and why? This is a question for which many players will give different answers, and none of them objective, because there are to few players that don't favor one faction before the other. There are many fanboyism acusations here writen by the other's faction fanboys. So the open-mindness needed for balance is almost completely missing here. Unfortunately.

That is one of the greatest issues, if not the greatest.

The fact that "spam-play" or really low level play in general is rewarded, or at least goes unpunished, which thus often punishes good play. This goes back to a game I played with a friend on Semoskiy, where we had them 'Semois Pinned' and yet they still can get out many T-34s (at least five) and even an ISU-152.

It makes me wonder if those two issues are, in fact, symptoms of a resource system that is also fundamentally flawed. Maybe I'm wrong, but now that every point gives the player fuel and munitions, if said player has been pushed back almost into their base, he / she can sit there and gather resources for a couple minutes until their next attack.

I'd rather comebacks be difficult and challenging than too easy and a common, expected occurrence.

You're fundamentally wrong here.

Comebacks are exactly what makes this game and makes it different to others.

There is no second RTS, where you can get pushed off/suffer losses and still recover.

Besides, on semois fuel point is right next to the base, so unless you were sitting on that, don't expect opponent to not being able to get armor.

Regarding spams, whole soviet faction is designed around one spam or another. This is why the tiers are inflexible and units in them effective in given role(except mortars, ZiS guns, SU-76, Katiusha, still somewhat penals who can't compete with ger infantry after T2 is unlocked).

Now, that being said, if player spams only one type of unit, it means the counter to it is that much more effective as you counter his whole force instead of single unit or a pair of a balanced combined arms.

Comebacks are ok, OP units are not. But what unit is OP and why? This is a question for which many players will give different answers, and none of them objective, because there are to few players that don't favor one faction before the other. There are many fanboyism acusations here writen by the other's faction fanboys. So the open-mindness needed for balance is almost completely missing here. Unfortunately.

That is a great statement. "Comebacks are OK." When are they OK? Not every match.

Glad we agree on OP units though. Everybody on here has their own opinion for each thing, and that is fine. The people who are unwilling to be open-minded create a problem. I mean, we have people defending Soviet spam^... Those who want a synthesis of play are few and far between. Happy to have met one.

wouldnt be T3 required for german call ins unfair? Soviets would have to invest more fuel to get access to their call ins than the germans if im not mistaken..

Soviets:
T1/T2 + T3/T4 > 40/50 + 120 > 160/170
MP: 120/160 + 240 = 360/400mp
Add a possible 25/50 fuel for Molo/AT Nade this will go to 185/230f and 485/650mp

But if we look just on the "real" cost it´s 240mp + 120f

Germans:
BP: 45 + 55 = 100
T1 + T2 + T3 = 10 + 15 + 25 = 35/50
MP: 400 (BP) + 360 (BP) = 760mp

Total: 135f + 760mp

Real cost is 360mp + 80 fuel

Take into account the time you want to field a T3485-KV8-Sherman-P4 is way before of a IS2/Tiger-Elephant/ISU.

What it would be better IMO would be:

-Require BP2 for Puma + Command Tank + StugE and BP3 for Tiger n Elephant
-Require T3 or T4 for Soviets call in.
-Things remaining without need of tech is M5 + Guards and Assault Groups.

-Cheaper BP and buildings more expensive.
-BP2 and BP3 are now 125mp. T3 and T4 are 75mp more expensive. Change time accordingly.

-Unlocking call in tanks for soviets is 240mp + 125f despite of heavy or medium tanks.
-Unlocking call in tanks for germans is 125mp + 55f for medium tanks and 250mp 115f for heavies.

wouldnt be T3 required for german call ins unfair? Soviets would have to invest more fuel to get access to their call ins than the germans if im not mistaken..

You're right, maybe Germans need to research T4 but not build it? It would be 160-170 fuel for Soviets depending on T1 or T2 and 160 fuel for Germans.

That way depending on situation German could decide to build T4 for 30 fuel and then have access to Panther, Brummbar etc. or call in a Tiger.

That is one of the greatest issues, if not the greatest.

The fact that "spam-play" or really low level play in general is rewarded, or at least goes unpunished, which thus often punishes good play.

If "bad play" works then it is good play

If "good play" fails then maybe it is not good play

If "bad play" works then it is good play

If "good play" fails then maybe it is not good play

By "bad play" I was referring to losing entire units, and spam tactics and strategies (i.e. abuse of the game). The former is not punished nearly hard enough, at least in my experience with the Soviets in 1v1 / 2v2. The latter is rewarded, again, in my experience with the Soviets in 1v1 / 2v2.

I must question your honesty if you're going to sit here and tell me that is the same good, fun, and balanced play we all know and love from vCoH.

And maybe if good play fails, it isn't being rewarded, like I said.

I think the M3 would be crap if it was any weaker. M3 spam is far from unbeatable.

I understand that it feels like it is harder to defeat than it is to play, but if M3s couldn't do early game damage there would be no reason to build them. Too many people waste manpower and munitions trying to kill the M3s, when if you just survive into the mid-game vs M3 spam you have a huge advantage. Vs just 1 or 2 M3s its a pretty simple matter to keep your army together and slow push the cutoff.

I think the M3 could use less armour or the MG 42 could use more penetration. In CoH1 if you tried to drive a jeep through an MG 42, it would get wrecked and you're down a unit. At least if the MG could wreck bad M3 play, it'd be more worth actually getting them anymore. You'd still be able to counter them with snipers (with M3 scouting) or flanking, since they're still highly immobile.

In CoH2 you can drive an M3 with Flamer Engineers by an MG and only sustain 20-30% health damage. If you want the same effect as CoH1, you need Veterancy, and to predict the M3's arrival beforehand so you can pop API before it gets there.

Or reduce the dmg on the gun of the m3 and make sure if it gets hit by faust the squad inside loses half its number(which is realistic if a thin skinned truck gets hits by a rocket grenade)...that way they can't charge with flamers with impunity knowing they can get away even with getting fausted and then pop out of the vehicle.

lol its funny how the greatest threat to flame engineers in m3 is themselves. they burn themselves quite often.

I think the M3 could use less armour or the MG 42 could use more penetration. In CoH1 if you tried to drive a jeep through an MG 42, it would get wrecked and you're down a unit. At least if the MG could wreck bad M3 play, it'd be more worth actually getting them anymore. You'd still be able to counter them with snipers (with M3 scouting) or flanking, since they're still highly immobile.

In CoH2 you can drive an M3 with Flamer Engineers by an MG and only sustain 20-30% health damage. If you want the same effect as CoH1, you need Veterancy, and to predict the M3's arrival beforehand so you can pop API before it gets there.

I have to disagree with this, since HMGs got a boost in penetration values they have become a valuable deterrent to M3s, look at the 1st game of Twister vs. BartonPL for a good example, the M3 was shredded very quickly under mg fire.