Maxim - Enough said

But irrelevant to the abusive meta, in casual level everything can be felt as extremely good or worthless because players has no idea how their unit should work.

Like pretty much every single strat that takes more effort to counter then dish out.
Both sides have them.

Have you noticed how it is pretty much always like this:
Soviets get a strat that works and is effective-clearly abuse of broken units, must be nerfed asap, counters do not exist even if the thread is spammed with them.
Germans get a strat that works and is effective-it is a direct result of vastly superior play using perfectly balanced units, like old TA or march deployment G43 grens, soviet scrubs need to L2P.

This is pretty much the reason why I'm calling L2P in most of these "balance" discussions.
There was absolutely PERFECT example of that last night, where cataclaw stomped some complete and utter scrub, who kept blaming balance and saying how awesome player he was.

Needless to say, he wasn't such a great player as he claimed to be, neither the balance was the reason of his lose. We have threads like that, because these all awesome players in their own eyes littered forums recently like they never did before.

Like pretty much every single strat that takes more effort to counter then dish out.
Both sides have them.

Have you noticed how it is pretty much always like this:
Soviets get a strat that works and is effective-clearly abuse of broken units, must be nerfed asap, counters do not exist even if the thread is spammed with them.
Germans get a strat that works and is effective-it is a direct result of vastly superior play using perfectly balanced units, like old TA or march deployment G43 grens, soviet scrubs need to L2P.

This is pretty much the reason why I'm calling L2P in most of these "balance" discussions.
There was absolutely PERFECT example of that last night, where cataclaw stomped some complete and utter scrub, who kept blaming balance and saying how awesome player he was.

Needless to say, he wasn't such a great player as he claimed to be, neither the balance was the reason of his lose. We have threads like that, because these all awesome players in their own eyes littered forums recently like they never did before.

So what are you doing here then ? getting troll points?

So what are you doing here then ? getting troll points?

Awarding them.

And there still is about 10% of threads which are still somehow constructive discussions worth taking part in.

So what are you doing here then ? getting troll points?

All you do is trying to counter one's arguments with profanity.

Awarding them.

And there still is about 10% of threads which are still somehow constructive discussions worth taking part in.

And it drops to zero if you participate in it.

All you do is trying to counter one's arguments with profanity.

And you fucking deserve it its offensive what your doing. When somebody gives evidence you dont say l2p or l2adept you give constructive feedback. You must give arguments why maxim spam is not a problem show your strats your tactics and how you would solve this particular strat.

You dont so will polity ask you to get lost until you get a replay.

Found this on official forums. Lol.

I suppose it can look like it if you are absolutely horrible at the game.

And obviously, Hingie Heini(they are basically the same anyway) by his tradition needs to copy paste posts of as bad player as he can find click my sig brah.

Maxim spam like all other spams multiplies the strengths of the unit, but also multiplies it's weaknesses. Scout cars and halftracks can work, but they are predictable and take some time. The soviet player will bring out a counter to that in the form of AT guns or guards.

What they can't counter is snipers since all the counters to snipers are in T1. If you see any more then 1 maxim it is free reign to build a sniper or 2 or 3. They will have trouble chasing you down especially while lacking conscripts.

If you manage to stay in the game til armor rolls out the maxims become increasingly useless as without cons to nade tanks your tanks can move easily throughout the battlefield. Add the fact that he will probably drop a couple of them and you can even bolster your own army.

Maxim spam is only effective against a player who is unwilling to change his build order after realising the obvious weakness of their opponents build. You wouldn't try to fight 5 AT guns by getting a Panther would you?

And it drops to zero if you participate in it.



And you fucking deserve it its offensive what your doing. When somebody gives evidence you dont say l2p or l2adept you give constructive feedback. You must give arguments why maxim spam is not a problem show your strats your tactics and how you would solve this particular strat.

You dont so will polity ask you to get lost until you get a replay.

The solution? Double sniper, problem solved!

I suppose it can look like it if you are absolutely horrible at the game.

And obviously, Hingie Heini(they are basically the same anyway) by his tradition needs to copy paste posts of as bad player as he can find click my sig brah.

You have to admit it's amusing

He could have put more work into it.

But I don't expect much creativity from people who can't beat spams

So what's the upkeep for having 11 conscripts? I don't see much upkeep because I see t34s easily being pulled out.

Maxim spam in 1s is a terrible idea. The second you see a second maxim as their third unit just get a German Sniper fallowed by a a mortar or so. Want a harder counter? go a doctrine with a MHT. For a Mid game continuing counter get a Half track and load up some panzer grens and or a pio squad with a flame thrower. Send this transport out any time you find an unsupported maxim drive up behind it and murder the maxim. Another thing of note is that when you decrew maxims it is a good idea to destroy them to prevent the Soviet players engineer squad from retrieving them all the time.

I think the OP units unique are the 2 large tanks, ISU is more OP because it kills all...

Maxpin is not that all great, one guy today try a spam maxpin, i put 2 mortars + grens with rifle grenade and finish, no problem. They spam AT too, things that i freak in the paste, today is no more problem, just if you put a ISU 152, this is a big problem for me... Maybe is not OP, but i dont know how to deal with it, but if the ISU kill infantry, the Ele need kill too, for balance...

Best Maxpin counter for me is mortar + grens shooting rifle grenade (and you can pick the mg)!!! Or sure, a tank to do a mass lol!

And speaking for ranks, while we're at it, it would be lovely to see lolcake rank. If 2000 player has no saying in balance, then this wiking clone should be put into a rocket and launched into the sun.

Don't you love the way it went from:

Could people who disagree and say "it's easily counterable. PLEASE - post a replay where you easily counter it so we can see how to do it. I'll accept any 1v1 replay where you have to beat 4 or more Maxims against a player with a similar level to yours. If you cannot provide such a replay it means you have not / can not do it (either because you rarely play as Germans or because you cannot actually counter it) and your point is invalid.

To:

Any replay with players less than top 500 is not worth watching, (except MNF for a laugh) and shouldn't come to an argument, a noob smashed a noob, congrats.

My strawman sense tells me that goalposts are being shifted

click my sig brah.

I want to come with you to Alderan and learn the ways of the force

Have you noticed how it is pretty much always like this:
Soviets get a strat that works and is effective-clearly abuse of broken units, must be nerfed asap, counters do not exist even if the thread is spammed with them.
Germans get a strat that works and is effective-it is a direct result of vastly superior play using perfectly balanced units, like old TA or march deployment G43 grens, soviet scrubs need to L2P.

So you're saying spamming A-move Maxim Guns is "a direct result of vastly superior play using perfectly balanced units"? So you don't attack me again, I'll say this; I like Maxims, I can't pull of Conscript starts very well so the Maxim is integral to my starting loadout. Conscripts, T2, Maxim, Maxim, Conscripts. Definitely vital to me. But, I do hate Maxim spam, and I don't think spamming "attack move" on Machine Guns should be a valid strategy.

Maxim spam in 1s is a terrible idea. The second you see a second maxim as their third unit just get a German Sniper fallowed by a a mortar or so. Want a harder counter? go a doctrine with a MHT. For a Mid game continuing counter get a Half track and load up some panzer grens and or a pio squad with a flame thrower. Send this transport out any time you find an unsupported maxim drive up behind it and murder the maxim. Another thing of note is that when you decrew maxims it is a good idea to destroy them to prevent the Soviet players engineer squad from retrieving them all the time.

If you look upon the replay the op posted i would say nearly all your counters are not effective. Let start with the mortar. Its completely rng dependant and if you say your strat should not resolve around luck. The sniper will take a full 30 seconds to bring a maxim to 1 man force a retreat. that is a long time not to mention you are using a very frail unit and one fuck up and you can say goodbye to your 360 mp investment.

The HT strat works provided he doesn't have AT or guards.

But the biggest issue with the maxim is how cheap it is to reinforce. even if you hit with riflenade or a sniper or mortar you virtually cause no mp damage what so ever. this issue can be easily resolved if we double mp cost for reinforcement making the soviet player pay dearly if they use maxim spam.

So you're saying spamming A-move Maxim Guns is "a direct result of vastly superior play using perfectly balanced units"? So you don't attack me again, I'll say this; I like Maxims, I can't pull of Conscript starts very well so the Maxim is integral to my starting loadout. Conscripts, T2, Maxim, Maxim, Conscripts. Definitely vital to me. But, I do hate Maxim spam, and I don't think spamming "attack move" on Machine Guns should be a valid strategy.

No, I'm saying that vast majority of players(which in most cases happen to be german only players) would rather go to the forums and scream "OP" and "nerf" instead of readjusting their own BO to react on what opponent is doing.

In most cases the process looks like this during competitive play:

Player 1 does unit A, player 2 does unit B, player 1 then gets unit C to counter B, player 2 follows with D to counter C ect ect.

What we have:

Player 1 does unit A, player 2 does unit B which counters unit A, player 1 gets even more of unit A and if it doesn't work, he goes to the forum and opens a QQ balance thread, because its obviously balance problem, not player 1 attempts to bash his head against the wall, expecting different outcome the more times he bashes it.

The strat can be easy to use, but needs to be countered cost effectively, the counter do not have to be equally easy as the strat itself(which is the point of the strat of your choice-to force opponent to put effort into countering it) and the strat in question in this topic IS cost effectively counterable.

But instead of fielding proper counters, players prefer to scream for nerfs on the unit unless we're back to march deployment where grens roll over everything and anything.

I also do not like spams(unless its conscript spam, this one just feels right) and will usually have balanced unit composition with 4th 5th or 6th unit being a direct counter to what my opponent is doing.

The above applies to ALL strats and counterstrats, not just maxims.

Maxim clearly is not a defenders weapon as MG42 is, so it can be used as offensive one. Its not a strat without drawbacks, because you end up with static army that is unable to deal attrition damage, unless you let it, so you can use additional resources you would otherwise use on reinforcing to get proper hardcounters, in this case mortars or snipers(don't give me bullshit about ger sniper not working against sov T2, if it doesn't work for you*, you* need to fucking L2P without excuse).













*in general, not specifically "you"

If you look upon the replay the op posted i would say nearly all your counters are not effective. Let start with the mortar. Its completely rng dependant and if you say your strat should not resolve around luck. The sniper will take a full 30 seconds to bring a maxim to 1 man force a retreat. that is a long time not to mention you are using a very frail unit and one fuck up and you can say goodbye to your 360 mp investment.

The HT strat works provided he doesn't have AT or guards.

But the biggest issue with the maxim is how cheap it is to reinforce. even if you hit with riflenade or a sniper or mortar you virtually cause no mp damage what so ever. this issue can be easily resolved if we double mp cost for reinforcement making the soviet player pay dearly if they use maxim spam.

One thing you tend to ignore is that Maxim spamer lost this game. If German player went for second Sniper the game would have ended much quicker. Instead he went for fairly standard build and managed to win regardless despite being pushed back in the early game. When the tanks came he was prepared and delt with the threat quickly.
Not to forget this particular map encourages this kind of gameplay. If German started south he would achieved even better results with single bunker on cut off point.