Rifle Grenades

forgetting the maxim is not the mg42 and should not behave like the mg42.

How should the maxim behave in your opinion?

How should the maxim behave in your opinion?

He just wants his easy mode. He's not interested in game being balanced.

He just wants his easy mode. He's not interested in game being balanced.

I am always open to the possibility that I might be missing something.

Since apparently Maxim is "nothing like the MG42" and should not behave in the same way, I'd like to find out what role the Maxim should perform in this experienced Soviet player's opinion...

R/nades are a real pain in the ass at the moment.

It is frustrating to see 2-3 gren squads assaulting a maxim from the front, only to get suppressed then fire multiple r/nades. Usually this is enough to take the crew down to half health/ half models (killing the gunner) but the worst part is that if G43s are added into the equation the grens have a decent enough chance to pick each poor bastard off who tries to get back on the gun..

Rinse and repeat on next maxim.

I'm eager to see what Relic's view is on the new early game and potential over-performance of certain units/weapon profiles/ abilities.

Haven't read through all the posts, since there are quite a lot of them

First of all: I play both soviets and germans and hope to be as much as possible impartial MVGame

I feel the same about nades being more consistent and rewarding for both players: those who use them well and others who pay attention and micro their units to not get hit.

Riflenades is the german way of urrahing and gettin' a molotov on an hmg, a mortar or a PaK/ Zis-gun. I think that's an important point to make sure we don't say remove the rifle nade.

That being said: the sad thing about them in this patch is that they are way too strong. I don't think they increased the reach, it's just that they kick ass, you do not have be smart to even kill a whole 6men-squad sometimes.

What to do now?
If you sense a riflenade, reposition MVGame

1) spread maximsquad-members or
2) decrease power of riflenades to what it's bben like in previous patches or
3) decrease the area where it affects
4) give Maxim more squad members and lower reinforce cost Kappa

I'm sure Relic's gonna fix that somehow, we have to wait for the next patch

R/nades are a real pain in the ass at the moment.

It is frustrating to see 2-3 gren squads assaulting a maxim from the front, only to get suppressed then fire multiple r/nades. Usually this is enough to take the crew down to half health/ half models (killing the gunner).....

If you see 2-3 grens firing multi rifle nades on one maxim, its normal to kill half of the team... btw. But yeah lets wait, what the upcoming patch will bring

What game are you playing? Early game balance is already ruined with pio/agren spam.

Pio/assgren spam isn't game breaking, it's one of the easiest German strats to beat.

Pio/assgren spam isn't game breaking, it's one of the easiest German strats to beat.

Unlike Gren spam, which is game-breaking and very popular for that very reason. Hence the rifle nade issue coming to the fore: Grens are everywhere and their OP nades come with them.

Pio/assgren spam isn't game breaking, it's one of the easiest German strats to beat.

Give me a replay of you beating pio spam, and then one of you beating agren spam , and I will retract my previous statement.

Give me a replay of you beating pio spam, and then one of you beating agren spam , and I will retract my previous statement.

Fine, I'll hand it over to you either later today or tomorrow.

Just build penals and scout cars, it's not hard at all.

If your enemy has a blob of pios just pick them off from a distance with a scout car, maybe even put some conscripts in the scout car, I heard that's effective too. The pio blob can't do shit because you can just micro it away from them when they try to get close to you. Or get penals and just close in on them since penals are really good at close range.

I mean, this is just basic logic.

FYI I play Soviets way more than Germans. (it's gotten quite bad when I have to say this everytime I try to make a point about something)

Nobody is talking about removing rifle grenades. We're discussing how to make them balanced.

The suggestions are:

1. Prevent them from being fired while suppressed.
2. Reduce range and/or accuracy of rifle grenades if the unit firing them is suppressed.

2 good ideas ! I support them.

Truly yours !

Fine, I'll hand it over to you either later today or tomorrow.

Just build penals and scout cars, it's not hard at all.

If your enemy has a blob of pios just pick them off from a distance with a scout car, maybe even put some conscripts in the scout car, I heard that's effective too. The pio blob can't do shit because you can just micro it away from them when they try to get close to you. Or get penals and just close in on them since penals are really good at close range.

I mean, this is just basic logic.

FYI I play Soviets way more than Germans. (it's gotten quite bad when I have to say this everytime I try to make a point about something)

That there en lies the problem, why should the soviet player have to waste time and resources to counter a t0 200mp unit? 150mp + 50fuel for t1 then another 40seconds to build it and then another 270mp or 230mp + 5fuel and another 30-40 seconds to wait for the unit. Using gimmicky starts to beat spam is ridiculous.

How should the maxim behave in your opinion?

As a support unit of course in the back where the riflenade cannot touch them. In some ways your correct . you shouldn't be able to send troops into a mg and then win. But at the same time maxim is a very unique unit that has never been seen before: a mg with high mobility and a very quick pack up and setup time. making this unit nearly as abusive HBsquad and Liberian in dow 2.

At the same time germans have a piss poor amount of abilities to counter this unit. But to say riflenade is suddenly op is nonsense. the riflenade always did this kind of damage because relic clearly knows the strengths of the maxims

As a support unit of course in the back where the riflenade cannot touch them.

The Maxim has almost the same range as rifle grenade. Are you suggesting that as soon as you see Grenadiers with Maxim, you should move the Maxim back out of the range of Grenadiers?

The Maxim has almost the same range as rifle grenade. Are you suggesting that as soon as you see Grenadiers with Maxim, you should move the Maxim back out of the range of Grenadiers?

Remember that at vet2, grenadiers outrange maxims with riflenades. So you are supposed to move maxims before they even fire one round into grenadiers.

Remember that at vet2, grenadiers outrange maxims with riflenades.

And this bonus need to be removed too.

That there en lies the problem, why should the soviet player have to waste time and resources to counter a t0 200mp unit? 150mp + 50fuel for t1 then another 40seconds to build it and then another 270mp or 230mp + 5fuel and another 30-40 seconds to wait for the unit. Using gimmicky starts to beat spam is ridiculous.

I agree on that, but you're saying it's OP and unbeatable which is not true at all. I'm sure that if either the mosin in general or conscript is buffed it'll pretty much fix everything. For me at least.

the problem i find is the maxim squads for some reaons love to bunch up in one big group making them easy picking for a nade... when/if they fix that i think it will be fine but onyl then do i think you can really establish a postion.

Remember that at vet2, grenadiers outrange maxims with riflenades. So you are supposed to move maxims before they even fire one round into grenadiers.

Makes sense. So the new Soviet strategy should be to scout ahead of Maxim with other units to make sure that you can move the Maxim back in time before the terminators Grenadiers get close (far?) enough for rifle grenade.

Maxim. Running away from German infantry since 2014.

Now, with the sarcasm out of the way, let's reiterate the suggestions that have been made in this thread:

1. Prevent suppressed units from firing rifle grenades
OR
2. Reduce accuracy of rifle grenades fired from suppression
OR
3. Reduce range of rifle grenades fired from suppression
AND
4. Reduce clumping of Maxim crews to prevent squad wipes with 1-2 rifle grenades

The Maxim has almost the same range as rifle grenade. Are you suggesting that as soon as you see Grenadiers with Maxim, you should move the Maxim back out of the range of Grenadiers?

Yes. i need to do the same thing with my mg42.

Now, with the sarcasm out of the way, let's reiterate the suggestions that have been made in this thread:

Once again the question is why do these changes need to be implemented. give a better reason to why the rifle nade is op.