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Rifle Grenades

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7 Apr 2014, 07:01 AM
#121
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

I'm sorry I don't like the glorious tactical side of the game of fighting against hordes of ubermensch grenadiers with 5 different gimmicky soviet units and still losing because the A-move is strong.

Have fun, I know I wasn't having it this patch.
7 Apr 2014, 07:04 AM
#122
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Ever done this with a Molotov because I never have. Notice how I wasn't even the arc of the maxim and there for not suppressed and yet I squad wiped it with 1 rifle grenade. Granted the men won't normally stack like that but even so. This is the issue I have with the rifle grenade. Range is too good and does too much damage. If the range was reduced while suppressed like many have suggested, it wouldn't have made any difference in that situation.



WOW! No luck man, but actually rifle nade is too easy way to kill/damage mg crew from range, and of course rifle nade need nerf.
7 Apr 2014, 07:06 AM
#123
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2014, 07:01 AMCruzz
I'm sorry I don't like the glorious tactical side of the game of fighting against hordes of ubermensch grenadiers with 5 different gimmicky soviet units and still losing because the A-move is strong.

Have fun, I know I wasn't having it this patch.


I was saying Brit A-move victory before it was cool :P
7 Apr 2014, 07:14 AM
#124
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2014, 07:04 AMNEVEC


WOW! No luck man, but actually rifle nade is too easy way to kill/damage mg crew from range, and of course rifle nade need nerf.


Saw same result obtained with a molotov on a low-health 4 men gren squad that were automatically clumped in order to stay in cover, just as in this video. Nothing unusual tbh.
7 Apr 2014, 07:22 AM
#125
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871



Saw same result obtained with a molotov on a low-health 4 men gren squad that were automatically clumped in order to stay in cover, just as in this video. Nothing unusual tbh.


How is a 4 man gren squad on low health equal to a full health 6 man mg squad at range? It's funny that even when there is evidence of something showing a german unit or ability being too good or strong, you still defend it. I suppose you will tell me I am a soviet fanboy as well?

Also since when was playing at the bottom of the ladder hard as any team? Try playing against decent opponents.
7 Apr 2014, 07:43 AM
#126
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807



How is a 4 man gren squad on low health equal to a full health 6 man mg squad at range? It's funny that even when there is evidence of something showing a german unit or ability being too good or strong, you still defend it. I suppose you will tell me I am a soviet fanboy as well?

Also since when was playing at the bottom of the ladder hard as any team? Try playing against decent opponents.


The video was not very good. Thought there were 4 didn't see well. If that is a 6 man squad, then yes, it's not normal.

On the second subject, I have to say different. Considering my 32 multiplayer soviet games (noob, unexperienced, zero strategy :D) I was automached with people of same cathegory, yes? Fair, even odds. So a balanced situation. And I won. So it's not impossible or unbalanced. Quod erat demonstrandum. Period.
7 Apr 2014, 08:47 AM
#127
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

I think the biggest problem with maxims getting one shot'd by rifle nades is the way they tend to move themselves into a bunched up position. Rifle nades used against stolen mg42s barely do anything(only kill the front man) because the mg42 members are usually spread out well. If the Maxim had it's squad members spread out similarly to the mg42, or in a way that doesn't cause them to bunch up most of the time, then the rifle nade wouldn't be as big of a problem imo.


This might solve the problem.
7 Apr 2014, 08:56 AM
#128
avatar of bämbabäm

Posts: 246

I don't see why the frontal Gren attack on a Maxim + Rifel Nade is worse than Ooorah right into the face of an MG42 + Molo.

You can prevent both by supporting your MG (scout for it) so it pins earlier.
7 Apr 2014, 08:58 AM
#129
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

I don't see why the frontal Gren attack on a Maxim + Rifel Nade is worse than Ooorah right into the face of an MG42 + Molo.

You can prevent both by supporting your MG (scout for it) so it pins earlier.
Because in one of those scenarios a squad takes a mg to the face and only might make it if the mg is distracted and still risks being wiped, and in the other the squad fires from the safety of cover taking minimal damage.
7 Apr 2014, 11:02 AM
#130
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I think the biggest problem with maxims getting one shot'd by rifle nades is the way they tend to move themselves into a bunched up position. Rifle nades used against stolen mg42s barely do anything(only kill the front man) because the mg42 members are usually spread out well. If the Maxim had it's squad members spread out similarly to the mg42, or in a way that doesn't cause them to bunch up most of the time, then the rifle nade wouldn't be as big of a problem imo.


+1

It took 100+ post in order to come to this "hotfix".
This doesnt solve if Rnades are overperforming or not for cost, tech, rangecast, time of alert and hitting, but i guess this is something we can most agree on.
7 Apr 2014, 15:51 PM
#131
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1



Saw same result obtained with a molotov on a low-health 4 men gren squad that were automatically clumped in order to stay in cover, just as in this video. Nothing unusual tbh.


Molotov and rifle nade different things, and rifle nade not propotional, better and OP. Rifle nade asking nerf it is obvious for everybody except peoples who play only germany and don't know how to counter soviet T2 and how to call mortar halftruck.
7 Apr 2014, 15:55 PM
#132
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

This is a tough issue, though I do support the rifle nade suppression idea I think there should be some exceptions to this rule like: G43s are able to shoot rifle nades while suppressed because they simply stick the grenade onto the top of the rifle and shoot it, therefore they don't need to crouch. Maybe when suppressed they are only able to fire at a very short distance, rather than a long one.


Nice idea: Reducing range while suppressed.
7 Apr 2014, 16:08 PM
#133
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

some people don't seem to understand the problem.

Lets say we have a conscript squad. And an Mg-42 with a gren squad.

Oorah molotov costs the same as the riflegrenade , however, while getting close, conscripts will take considerable damage and will lose atleast 3 crewmembers. Lets say that is 60 manpower.
At best, they can kill 2 crewmembers, often , they wont kill anything.

Now lets say we have a grenadier approaching a maxmim,while 1 conscript squad is gaurding it. Maxim surpresses grenadiers, and grenadiers fire rifle nade. They kill 3 men, which is 45 manpower. And grens retreat with probaly no losses ( might have lost one).
So there you have it folks, that is the problem. Grenadiers can assault maxim and inflict manpower losses while losing no manpower, while soviets can assault an mg for and cause some manpower losses, but probaly taking more while doing so.
7 Apr 2014, 16:39 PM
#134
avatar of FestiveLongJohns
Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2

I agree that the maxims simply need to spread out more, I think the rifle made damage is fine, it's it's range that is the issue for me. It's ease of use is just so good

Neo
7 Apr 2014, 19:33 PM
#135
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

I think the biggest problem with maxims getting one shot'd by rifle nades is the way they tend to move themselves into a bunched up position. Rifle nades used against stolen mg42s barely do anything(only kill the front man) because the mg42 members are usually spread out well. If the Maxim had it's squad members spread out similarly to the mg42, or in a way that doesn't cause them to bunch up most of the time, then the rifle nade wouldn't be as big of a problem imo.


I hadn't noticed this myself but if true, this seems like the best solution of all that have been suggested here so far... +1
7 Apr 2014, 20:26 PM
#136
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

ivans right. the only time maxims get 1 shotted is when all 6 men stand huddled together. thats why people should pay attention to how they position them. you can see where the entities will stand when you pick the mgs direction. if all the green or yellow dots are close together, try placing it again. i think if you lose a maxim to less than 2 rifle nades, it was your own fault.
8 Apr 2014, 02:53 AM
#137
avatar of joebill

Posts: 54

The maxim sets up once and gets to business or it loses its chance. If all the crew happen to stand in close order drill after you give the facing command, there's not really an opportunity to fix that. So yeah it'd be nice if relic got rid of their occasional football huddle.

My problem's not been so much with occasional-but-infuriating squad whipes, but with losing the gunner and two other mooks to a riflenade, then watching the other three get picked off trying to recrew the gun. It's supposed to stop infantry from the front, that's what MG's do. It doesn't stop grenadiers. Grenadiers are a feature in all german builds save the weird stuff. This is a problem.
8 Apr 2014, 05:19 AM
#138
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

This was never a problem "back in the day" when Grenadiers only had M24s... :3
8 Apr 2014, 11:10 AM
#139
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2014, 16:08 PMBurts
some people don't seem to understand the problem.

Lets say we have a conscript squad. And an Mg-42 with a gren squad.

Oorah molotov costs the same as the riflegrenade , however, while getting close, conscripts will take considerable damage and will lose atleast 3 crewmembers. Lets say that is 60 manpower.
At best, they can kill 2 crewmembers, often , they wont kill anything.

Now lets say we have a grenadier approaching a maxmim,while 1 conscript squad is gaurding it. Maxim surpresses grenadiers, and grenadiers fire rifle nade. They kill 3 men, which is 45 manpower. And grens retreat with probaly no losses ( might have lost one).
So there you have it folks, that is the problem. Grenadiers can assault maxim and inflict manpower losses while losing no manpower, while soviets can assault an mg for and cause some manpower losses, but probaly taking more while doing so.


Their are more options for the soviets to remove mg42's. their are no options for the germans to remove maxims. Until the maxim can be properly flanked the riflenade should stay. But sumply put both the maxim and the mg42 need a major overhaul they are both worthless
8 Apr 2014, 11:50 AM
#140
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

some people don't seem to understand the problem.Lets say we have a conscript squad. And an Mg-42 with a gren squad.Oorah molotov costs the same as the riflegrenade

nope.


however, while getting close, conscripts will take considerable damage and will lose atleast 3 crewmembers

If they attack through the middle of the road.


At best, they can kill 2 crewmembers, often , they wont kill anything.

If german players repositions in due time his mg, there are 50% chances for the mg not to lose one model, and 50% chances to lose one model. If german player doesn't move his mg in due time, he might lose between 3 and all crew members

Now lets say we have a grenadier approaching a maxmim,while 1 conscript squad is gaurding it. Maxim surpresses grenadiers, and grenadiers fire rifle nade. They kill 3 men, which is 45 manpower

2, 3, or 4 men, depening on situation.

And grens retreat with probaly no losses ( might have lost one)

Yes, if maxim is alone. If 1 con squad is next to maxim like in your example, be sure they will lose more.

So there you have it folks, that is the problem. Grenadiers can assault maxim and inflict manpower losses while losing no manpower, while soviets can assault an mg for and cause some manpower losses, but probaly taking more while doing so.

Not convinced.
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