Balance vCoH Trolololo

Posts: 331

8 Mar 2013, 00:06 AMkafrion

oh god i spent an hour on writing a great wall of a text to reply to both of you only to get a blue screen up my rectum i ll try to answer tomorrow

but i will say one thing i have not lost 1 wehrmacht game wihout making some kind of a big blunder so no i will not complain that us is op

Just go back to playing scheldt+no-popcap please

Posts: 172

7 Mar 2013, 22:53 PMcr4wler

actually, he was asking why the wehr mortar was superior... and it is because of it's higher range mainly (it does a little more dmg too afaik, can't recall how much exactly though, go look it up on coh-stats.net)

I think you misunderstood me; I didn't imply that the US mortar was better in terms of stats. I merely pointed out why I don't consider the fact that the Wehr mortar is superior in terms of stats to be an issue.

Posts: 486

7 Mar 2013, 21:42 PMcr4wler

if you think wehr is OP, go play wehr for a while... i'll expect you back here complaining about how OP US stuff is ;-)

So many times I've gotten hate messages from US only players telling me how OP wehr are because they camp. Even had a guy who capped the right side on ango while I capped the left, then let him sit there while I bombed him with my wehr mortar. After I killed of his mortar with mine, he got pissed off enough to quit after telling me how MG's completely negate all US aggression, and that I shouldn't "Drink the kool aid". I had half the map and he didn't attack me or even harass for 20 whole minutes... :/

Posts: 371

both the sniper and the MG could be the US players first unit (and before you complain: US MG has same DMG/burst and same suppression/burst as MG42, was wider arc but lower range and shoots half as fast (but bursts last twice as long and it's 10MP (used to be 20) cheaper)

i think there are very few wsc starts so in reality unless y r in a 2v2 , not talking about that , 30 cal comes after mg42 if it gets in the field at all , on the 30 cal stats you mention , the same damage / burts is countered by the fact that most wehr units have more health , and basic geometry mitigates the initial difference of the cones of fire through the range and mines cover the close distance , finally on the greater range it seems that if you are diffending you ll want to pin down the enemy from the furthest possible distance in order to change targets if need be

in the early game, a good flank alone can almost decide the game... later on, that doesnt cut it anymore. if this means the game is unbalanced, because you can't just move all your units to a certain point and kill everything thats there... well, yeah. the game is biased towards late game wehr.

yeah but early on there are a lot of good ways to defend against a flank with a few units and if you go for a big t1 it gets really dificult to do any flank at all without bars + flamers and even then its quite dicey , finally there is always retreat which does not hurt the wehr as much as the am early on

rifles get countered by ostwinds, panthers get countered by AT guns, KCH get countered by crocs, pios get countered by snipers.... i can go on with the list, every unit has counters.. if you think you can play out an entire game with T1 units... yeah, <opposing faction> lategame is OP.

if am faction wants to do a succesfull late game they need vetted inf troops of some sort and those will either be vetted snipers or rifles , on the other hand wehrmacht is really strong with vetted vehicles and tank usage you tell me what is easier to counter with the counters in mind and what is more costly to keep on the field in order to get the sufficient manpower you need to get more troops in the field , also i did not say that i intend to win any game by t1 units alone .

OMCG is a wheel of fortune, but it is always 1 thing: MP effective. you always spend less MP on a OMCG than you would have building all those units. and thats what the (late) game is all about: being MP efficient (note: not effective, but efficient). OMCG can be inefficient MP-wise when you would have needed other units... but then you should have built those in the first place (again, don't expect to win a game with only T1 units).

thats more or less what i said + that if you get an omcg hoping for some at units and your opponent has already invested in nebbels and you get ats and 30cals and rifles then that is both ineffective and inefficient . Again to clarify omcg is a very good ability but for me its so good because of its ability to swell up your army disproprnionately to its cost and that in turn can be translated in larger map control and gradual suffocating of the wehrmacht .

stukas: 1 stuka is what? 220 MP, 25 or so fuel, 150 ammo.... PLUS he has to tech to T4... you're telling me your opponent was able to spend over 600 mp, 150 ammo and close to 100 fuel on a non-fighting unit without you being able to capitalise on that? a rep bunker is a somewhat more expensive pioneer squad that you can only use to repair, but won't cost you any more MP in the future (keyword: MP efficiency).
Vet 3 panthers: 1 vet 3 panther (assuming he already teched to T4 and built a KKC, and the T4 building... which are all very expensive things to do) is 1300 MP and what... 200+ fuel? again: he is spending the MP income of about 5 minutes and the fuel income of let's say 10 minutes on a single unit without you being able to field a counter?

dont play that card ( about the collective cost of units ) , i am bored of hearing it , if that was the case (talking about the cost of vet 3 panthers then we would have no games where the wehrmacht based their late strat on a kt and 2 supporting stugs , plus that over half an hour game you generate 7500 mp and you see vet 3 panthers really in the end of a long game where over 10000 + mp has been generated and fuel is no longer an issue , plus that it is a gradually spent ammount of mp which means that it will be done at a point where you think you have caused your opponent enough mp leaks that spending the resources on teching wont hurt your field presence , on stukkas again you cant add up all the costs because its not a one time spend , + that if you compare it with a calli then the only thing you spend ( comparatively always ) are the ammo and the fuel ( and the fuel would definitely be used as the game goes further and further ). Note that when i say late game ( for wehr ) i mean after 40 minutes when game fatigue kicks in and both armies are gradually battered and every unit shines , that is when wehr late game of vetted vehicles and tanks really shines .

if you think wehr is OP, go play wehr for a while... i'll expect you back here complaining about how OP US stuff is ;-)

where do i say that wehr is op ? What my opinion is that wehr is more forgiving and gives more tactical variety of specialized units to deal with late situations early and late due to the loophole i mentioned earlier which forces us to go infantry to break in , which is good since you cant actually go wrong by picing infantry but it gives your opponent more tactical advantage since he is dictating the flow of the later battle . Op for me is a stupid term because anyone can translate it as slight advantage or autowin button , personally i think that if wehrmacht is op then it is a slight advantage on the fair maps and a big advantage on the wehrmacht favored ones . Now we can say that on the big 3 skill difference generally makes the victor but i would love to see that on b lowlands or wrecked train .

Posts: 1164

if you don't think wehr is op... why post in a balance thread?

suffice it to say that there are about a million ways to play coh, if you play the wrong way against your opponents playstyle, you are likely to lose.

the imbalances of the game (if there are any) are too insignificant at our skill level to be recognizable (or of any importance/impact).

Posts: 371

I am writing because i love the game and i want to see it in the best possible state

here are some stats from the latest snf and while the number of matches is too small to allow any conclusions i have a feeling that those numbers are close to reality in the way and proportion that faction choice (map dependent ofc ) ups or downes ones skill generated chances to win a game

Semois:
Map played: 46 times (Most played map on SNF Season 04)
# of allied wins: 20 wins (43%)
# of axis wins: 26 wins (57%)

Langres:
Map played: 25 times
#Allied wins: 11 wins (44%)
#Axis wins: 14 wins (56%)

Angoville
Map played: 25 times
#Allied wins: 13 wins (52%)
#Axis wins: 12 wins (48%)

Posts: 486

The strongest conclusion one can draw from those stats is that the vanilla matchup is balanced at the highest skill level. Actually it's kinda amazing how even the two are in wins.

Posts: 56

Sample size is way to small, no conclusions at all can be drawn from that. Slight advantage to axis in the highest levels of play is my opinion. If we took all the tournament games this patch, and the SNFs, we would have a good idea.

Posts: 1164

11 Mar 2013, 17:12 PMkafrion

I am writing because i love the game and i want to see it in the best possible state

here are some stats from the latest snf and while the number of matches is too small to allow any conclusions i have a feeling that those numbers are close to reality in the way and proportion that faction choice (map dependent ofc ) ups or downes ones skill generated chances to win a game

Semois:
Map played: 46 times (Most played map on SNF Season 04)
# of allied wins: 20 wins (43%)
# of axis wins: 26 wins (57%)

Langres:
Map played: 25 times
#Allied wins: 11 wins (44%)
#Axis wins: 14 wins (56%)

Angoville
Map played: 25 times
#Allied wins: 13 wins (52%)
#Axis wins: 12 wins (48%)

those stats are actually incorrect, correct stats are as follows:

Semois:
26 Axis wins (all Wehr)
22 Allied wins (all US)

Langres:
16 Axis wins (all wehr)
13 Allied wins (all US)

Angoville:
12 Axis wins (2 of those were PE wins)
13 Allied wins (all US)

Argentan:
24 Axis wins (all Wehr)
13 (!) Allied wins (all US)

all you can deduce from these stats is that argentan might be wehr favore with a ~65% win percentage. also, like BHC said, sample size is too small to draw any relevant conclusions.

imho, if you factor in map bias, you'll get to the conclusion that the game isr reasonably well balanced. skill and map have so much influence over the outcome of the game that imbalances (if there are any) do not matter.

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

Why did i make such a topic.... :/ now everyone are trolling here

Posts: 371

11 Mar 2013, 21:15 PMcr4wler

those stats are actually incorrect, correct stats are as follows:

Semois:
26 Axis wins (all Wehr)
22 Allied wins (all US)

Langres:
16 Axis wins (all wehr)
13 Allied wins (all US)

Angoville:
12 Axis wins (2 of those were PE wins)
13 Allied wins (all US)

Argentan:
24 Axis wins (all Wehr)
13 (!) Allied wins (all US)

all you can deduce from these stats is that argentan might be wehr favore with a ~65% win percentage. also, like BHC said, sample size is too small to draw any relevant conclusions.

imho, if you factor in map bias, you'll get to the conclusion that the game isr reasonably well balanced. skill and map have so much influence over the outcome of the game that imbalances (if there are any) do not matter.

sorry but the map bias contributes to the imbalance issues , especially in laddering with different factions , so do the reversed positions , when there is a 10% win difference here and 14% there (if that is true because we have said that the sample is small ) , then the correct response is to sit down and see what is wrong , another thing is the doctrinal choice , when i play as wehrmacht or pe and even sometimes brits (ok its 70 % commandos and 30% re ) , i have relative freedom to pick the doctrine that better suits my strategy , but when i play as us i feel compeled by circumstances to pick infantry .

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Dafuck happened

Posts: 3293

27 Feb 2013, 00:03 AMBartonPL

Problem with balance is that Relic makes too much changes in new patches (actually they were), and in most of time they balance it or unbalanced it, more less

Instead of changing like 100 things in one patch, i prefer more patches with less changes, probability for bigger unbalance is less

Relic gave us a chance to balance CoH in our way and we failed it badly, it's probably because only few people had significiant impact in 2.602 patch

bartons only serious post ever is in the coh1 balance thread.

Failure is always an option.

It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)

Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences.

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and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!

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Why are people still posting here? ^^

Posts: 331

21 Mar 2013, 22:49 PMhubewa

Why are people still posting here? ^^

for the hell of it

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

23 Feb 2013, 16:10 PM12ocky

12ocky proudly presents a 2 year old patch proposal from under the dust. I filtered out to VCoh changes only.
- Sniper meta nerfed, motivating to take other AI paths then snipers.
- Incentives for more teching flexibility, more options overall
- (lategame) Armor play got buffed (More rewarding for teching risks)
- Lower reinforce cost to rifles (flanking is "less riskful", trading damage less painful), straight jeep buff and small grease gun buff should buff USA T1 enough to compete with the already powerful Wehrmacht T1

General changes (or for multiple factions)
* Add a button like Blitzkrieg mod where your units can keep the same position
* Accuracy increment on all hull and coaxial mg's from 1.05x to 1.12x (no worries: will still be useless)
* Fatigue penalty (Heroic Charge, Fire up ..) duration reduced to 5s from 10s

US

Doctrinal
* P47 5in Rocket (bombing run) AoE distance L from 6 to 6.75, Medium 4 to 4.5 and Short from 3 to 3.25
* P47 5in Rocket Aoe accuracy medium and long to 100%
* P47 5in Rocket penetration at all ranges x1 (not sure if it does something actually, but just to make sure)
* P47 5in Rocket damage vs buildings 1.25x
* P47 5in Rocket damage vs all armored vehicles x2(Stugs, skirted stugs, geschutz ...)
* Fix airborne ATG reinforce cost ~35mp
* Airborne squad reinforce cost from 45 to 40 (0.72x to 0.64x)
* Satchel Charge cost from 50m to 40m
* Supply drop cooldown increasesd from 180s to 210
* Thompsons upgrade cost reduced to 80 munitions
* Rangers reinforce cost from 45 to 39 (from 0.7x to 0.65x)
* Rangers veterancy requirements to 8/16/32 from 12/24/44
* Off map combat group can now have M3 Quad in group 3 of the lottery, 30 cal and Mortar removed in group 2 (Only 1 mortar or 1 MG max per off map combat group)
* Howitzer Veterancy:
Vet 1 10% reduction to scatter angle
Vet 2 10 second reduction to ability cooldown
Vet 3 0.8x Reload 'shells follow up in quicker succession'
* Pershing HVAP (upgun) AoE distance long from 3 to 5, medium from 1.5 to 2.5, Short from 0.5 to 1 (No drawback on the Gun upgrade.)
* Raid now costs 1 CP less
* Calliope price reduced from 650mp to 625mp
* Calliope max damage from 50 to 45, min damage from 30 to 35
* Calliope veterancy: Vet 2 Penetration bonus removed, now Max Scatter 0.9x

Tier0
* Engineer vet requirements lowered to 8/14/26
* Grease gun moving burst from 1x to 1.5x (to match other smgs)
* Demo Charge research time from 60s to 30s
* US MG Nest 30 cal Accuracy vs suppressed targets from 0.5x to 0.75x, Penetration vs suppressed targets from 0.67x to 1.0x
* American Observation post build time set from 50s to 30s
* USA forward rax is now enough to build a supply depot
* USA starting fuel from 15 to 10

Tier1
* American Barracks cost from 160/15 to 160/10
* Jeep 30 cal damage from 5 to 6
* Jeep accuracy increment from 0.975x to 1x
* Jeep max reload from 6s to 6.5s (to match other 30 cals)
* Jeep 30 cal priority vs Snipers increased to 100
* Vet 1 Jeep extra bonus: Cooldown 0.9x
* Riflemen reinforce cost from 27 to 24 (from 0.6x to 0.53334x)

Tier2
* WSC cost lowered from 180/15 to 180/10
* American HMG reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.35x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar cost from 280mp to 260mp, reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.3x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar veterancy requirements from 8/16/32 to 8/14/26
* American Sniper reload from 3s to 4s
* American Sniper upkeep cost from 9.6 to 12

Tier3
* Vet 1 M8 and M3 extra bonus: 0.9x reload
* Vet 2 T17 extra bonus: 1.1x penetration
* M8 37mm damage vs Marder III (Geschutz) armor from 2x to 1.2x
* T17 penetration from 0.4/0.6/1 to 0.5/0.75/1
* M3 build time from 40s to 35s
* M3 Quad upgrade cost from 100m to 80m
* 57mm anti tank gun build time from 67s to 60s
* Give US 57mm ATG some added defensive veterancy bonuses (also for AB version)
Vet 1 Received Damage 0.9x
Vet 2 Max Health 1.1x
Vet 3 Received Accuracy 0.95x

Tier4
* Cost from 350/90 to 300/90
* All US tanks get extra 1.1x acceleration bonus at vet 1,
* Sherman 76mm Reload reduced from 7s to 6s; AoE distance short from 0.75 to 0.25
* Sherman M2HB machine gun upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman Smoke research cost lower from 150mp25fuel to 75mp25fuel
* Sherman Smoke use munitions cost lowered from 50 to 20
* Sherman Smoke now applies to the Croc Sherman aswell
* Sherman Crocodile health increased from 636hp to 700hp
* Sherman Crocodile ready aim time removed, projectile speed fixed
* Sherman bulldozer cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman crab mine flail speed penalty from 0.5x to 0.6x
* Sherman crab mine flail cost reduced from 75muni to 50muni
* Hellcat vision range reduced from 46m to 35m
* Hellcat damage bonus from cloaked shot further reduced from 1.5x to 1.2x
* Hellcat 76mm Reload time increased with 0.8s
* Hellcat penetration increased to match M10 penetration
* Hellcat MG upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
* Hellcat model size scaled down (becomes smaller)
* M10 Reload time increased to 5s, M10 wind up removed/lowered, M10 wind up animation fixed ~ (Basically: fix the misfire)

Supply Yard
* Supply yard lvl 2 research time from 90s to 45s

WM:

Doctrinal
* Inspired Assault now applies to Support Weapons
* Inspired Assault Received Accuracy penalty lowered from 1.5x to 1.35x
* FtFL Received Damage modifier increased from 0.7x to 0.8x
* Bunker health with Fortify the perimeter from 1.5x to 1.25x
* Fortify the perimeter cp requirement increased +1, Flak cp requirement -1
* Fortify the perimeter now makes defensive structures build 25% faster
* 280mm barrage now has double damage vs all vehicles and tanks (applies to some armor types (mostly pe and british)
* Assault nades: removed => REWORKED: Now assault logistics. KCH start with Bundle grenade; When abilitiy is selected: Volksgrenadiers gain the ability to throw standard grenadier grenade + all Wehrmacht grenades and medic packs cost 5 munitions less. (Ideas are welcome for this ability, but the current assault grenades are too buggy in too many ways.)
* KT 88mm turret speed from 15 to 18
* KT accuracy vs infantry from 0.4x to 0.45x
* KT now costs a straight 1000mp (no more mp penalty)

Tier0
* Wehr OP's build time set from 30s to 20s

Tier1
* MG42 reinforce cost to 25mp (modifier set from 0.5x to 0,3x), Reinforce time 0.9x
* Volksgrenadier MP40 Fire On The Move Accuracy modifier from 0.2x to 0.3x
* Schwimmwagen build time from 40s to 35s
* Motorcycle MG42 Accuracy increment from 0.975x to 1x
* Motorcycle MG42 priority vs Snipers increased to 100
* G43 Sniper rifle reload time from 2s to 4s
* Wehr Sniper upkeep cost increased from 5.376 to 8.064

Tier2
* MG42 Vehicle (on HT is also on Stug) Short range Suppression from 0.012 to 0.009
* Mortar reinforce cost modifier from 0.5x to 0.36x, reinforce time 0.9x
* Mortar vet1 Rec. Damage (Heavy Cover) 0.75 removed: instead the mortar gets 0.85 received damage overall
* Mortar pack up time reduced from 2.8s to 2.3s
* Mortar cost from 270mp to 260mp

Tier3
* MP44 Accuracy on the move from 0.75x to 0.67x, Damage from 7 to 8, Accuracy short from 0.9x to 0.8x (This change makes the dps on the move equal when standing still, + the mp44 is slightly better at longer ranges)
* LMG 42 search radius from 3/4/5 to 3/6/9, Munitions cost from 75 to 60
* Halftrack Flammenwerfer upgrade munitions cost from 75 to 60
* Puma 50mm (upgun) accuracy on the move from 0.5x to 0.75x
* Officer now builds at HQ after Tier 3 has been researched, removed from Sturm Armory
* Officer cost from 260mp to 230mp
* Officer can now supervise resource points.
* Officer arty barrage cost from 150m to 125m
* Stug 75mm damage vs Sherman from 1.5x to 1.35x
* Geschutzwagen 75mm damage vs M3 halftrack from 0.75x to 1x

Tier4
* Tier 4 tech cost from 200/50 to 150/50
* Panzer Command build time from 165s to 140s
* Stuka AoE accuracy increased to 100pct
* Stuka Damage against Howitzers increased from 1.0x to 1.25x, damage vs all infantry types from 0.25x to 0.35x
* KCH capping rate from 1 to 1.25
* Killing a KCH experience points granted lowered from 4 to 3
* Panzer IV and Ostwind acceleration from 1.2 to 1.5
* Ostwind 37mm damage vs Greyhound armor from 0.5x to 0.6x

Veterancy
* Infantry vet 2:
Officer now gets heroic armor and 1.15x sight range bonuses instead of elite armor
* Additional Vehicle veterancy lvl 2:
0.9x cooldown for Bike, Schwimmm and halftrack
1.05x accuracy and 0.9x reload for Puma
Pak penetration 1.1x
* Additional Vehicle veterancy lvl 3:
1.1x acceleration Halftrack
1.1x accuracy for Bike, Schwimm
added Pak sight range 1.125x
* Additional bonuses Vet 2 Tanks:
Panzer IV and Panther get 1.1x max health bonus

Maps: Langres: Bring back the Stone wall on Langres.

(General)
*Possibility (needs testing) : *Suppressed units (activate actions): Accuracy 0.95x

Bugs

Not sure if this is true (need check) but: Heroic armor vs Bars wasn't buffed? (should be 0.78x accuracy) (and vs hmg is?)

Snipers no longer automatically target light vehicles

Tank Traps can be passed by certain vehicles: fix that (but not too much, infantry should still be able to pass)

Fix an issue with Demo charges not being targetable on HQ's

Panther MG42 turret bug ...

Fix a bug that the MG on the M3 can't be manned when researching Quad

M10 misfire bug ... (wind up removed (role of Ready aim time?), fix animation) (or maybe buff the tracking speed to help it come less frequent)

Fix Hellcat Coaxial MG Accuracy bug vs Snipers 65 to 0.65

Retreat bug

Fix AI with units jumping around too much.

Fix a bug where Stormtroopers can move at full speed while cloaked after being reinforced

Fix a bug some HQ's can't be scatchel charged

Fix a bug with HQ's giving more increment accuracy

Fix bug that cause units to pack and unpack mortar repeatedly

Flammenwerfer min and max damage switched => just make it 35 for both

Make it possible to shift click salvage wrecks

LMG (and snipers aswell etc) guy jumps around a lot fixable?

Fix a bug where a Flak under construction doesn't show any health loss when getting shot at

Fix an issue with airborne smoke making units to get stuck (?)

Fix a bug with the pak getting stuck, same with mg

Calliope barrage can now be cancelled while active

Medic stations now show up on mini map (?)

Fix a bug where infantry units keep on repairing repaired scorched points

and more ...

couldn't help but update, since Coh update MIGHT be coming.

Posts: 142

I too feel like the US is lacking something to compete with Wehr especially in early game, and what's more? Their upkeep and reinforece (rifles) are insanely expensive. You have almost no teching option left after an exhausting early game fending off and flanking MGs and Volks and snipers with those poor rifles. I even feel sorry for them......

Posts: 393

Because I have some time on my hands:

I like 12ocky's changes. Some points:

* Thompsons cost reduced to 80 munitions
* Rangers veterancy requirements to 8/16/32 from 12/24/44
Why do we need these? The Thompson buff just seems unnecessary, and rangers already got a pretty big buff, no need for them to vet up faster.

* Grease gun moving burst from 1x to 1.5x (to match other smgs)
Will this change the pio-engie combat?

* Demo Charge research time from 60s to 30s
* Engineer vet requirements lowered to 8/14/26
These I like!

* Assault nades: removed => REWORKED: Now assault logistics. KCH start with Bundle grenade; When abilitiy is selected: Volksgrenadiers gain the ability to throw standard grenadier grenade + all Wehrmacht grenades and medic packs cost 5 munitions less. (Ideas are welcome for this ability, but the current assault grenades are too buggy in too many ways.)
Just having volks be able to throw grenades seems fine to me.

* MG42 reinforce cost to 25mp (modifier set from 0.5x to 0,3x), Reinforce time 0.9x
* American HMG reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.35x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar cost from 280mp to 260mp, reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.3x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar veterancy requirements from 8/16/32 to 8/14/26
Not really sure about these, they just seem unnecessary. I do like that MG42s get back on the field quicker though. Maybe just keep the MG42 reinforce time buff?

* Officer cost from 260mp to 210mp
* Officer arty barrage cost from 150m to 125m
Maybe also make officer build time quicker? That way, if you're floating MP you can quickly get T3, an officer and spend your MP.

* Airborne squad reinforce cost from 45 to 40 (0.72x to 0.64x)
* Satchel Charge cost from 50m to 45m
* Satchel Charge fuse from 5s to 4.5s
* American Barracks cost from 160/15 to 160/10
* WSC cost lowered from 180/15 to 160/10
* American Sniper reload from 3s to 4s
* Supply yard lvl 1 decreased upkeep amount from 27.5% to 30%
* Supply yard lvl price lowered from 200/140 to 150/130 (I left out the research time buff, which I like)
* 88mm Flak 36 health from 325hp to 375hp
* KT now costs a straight 1000mp (no more mp penalty)
* Volksgrenadier MP40 Fire On The Move Accuracy modifier from 0.2x to 0.3x
* Halftrack fuel cost from 20 to 25
All these changes just seem so unnecessary and small that all they can do is confuse people.

* LMG 42 search radius from 3/4/5 to 3/6/9
Could you tell me what this means? I'm not familiar with the search radius. I do think the LMG42 needs a buff though, 75 munis is just too much an investment for what you get.

Other changes are nice, especially the ones for the crab flail, M4 smoke, Jeep, sniper upkeep and rifle reinforce.

Posts: 419

- increase range of flamer halftrack
- Inspired assault and Zeal used together is not rewarding:
2men gren squads charging will die super fast. Sniper completly counter both abilites
- LMG42 upgrade unlocked by tier2:
Currently it comes in a time ingame, where you need your mun for superior weapons (firestorm, stuka, defensive strikes, ...), which means it comes too late.
The downside of the LMG42 upgrade in tier2 would be already, that you lack the mun for a shrek upgrade or 3 mines.
- fix KT and JP cannon AOE:
Values of range and damage are reversed
- fix stuh AOE:
super high damage with very small range means luck weapon -> annoying
- Blitzkrieg doctrine LHS floats mun while the RHS lacks it:
Maybe switch stuh with blitzkrieg?

There are some suggestions i would object, but one i want to mention:
Why KT 1000MP?
I don´t think wehr can afford that (or do you mean by having less reinforce costs because of zeal and propwar you will achieve that 1000MP)
I have the feeling that the 500mp are just right price.

Posts: 403

11 Nov 2013, 13:31 PMGeneralCH

-
- Blitzkrieg doctrine LHS floats mun while the RHS lacks it:
Maybe switch stuh with blitzkrieg?

If You did this, It would mean in a Brit vs Wehr matchup the Stuh would come out on the field much quicker, but I mean no one cares about that.
Also about the LMG, maybe either a general buff, or a decrease in prize would make it more worth, although I already love them

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