Balance vCoH Trolololo

I don't understand a single word of what you just posted, 12ocky.

I'm responding to the people who believe that simply fixing the few things in the game that people think are bugs (namely AC detection and the Stag MG reload) will result in a better game. That's absolutely false because it fails to take into consideration the ramifications of those changes, and how they will impact other areas of the game.

I'm just getting the impression you fear the game of changing too much rather than being unbalanced.
And I 'suspect' that's is your personal vision from a 'winning players perspective'.
Something like: You learned the 2.602 meta, you like it because you're good at it. You fear losses because of changes to the game. (You fear change more than you fear unbalance, that's what i'm trying to say.)

Taking away AC detection would be a dumb thing to do, It was never on 'my official list' either, because you would simply take away one of the main counters to snipers. (Which are already very hard to deal with without luftwaffe ketten, which on it's turn is broken aswell.) What is broken though= Overdrive: PUSH overdrive, GO IN, Kill sniper, get shot at by an ATG or stickied, just drive away and you're safe out of range with still 50% health left.

PE both needs some buffs and some nerfs, some small changes to the way they work / abilities. They are doable to balance. Still would take some testing though.

I don't know if British would be 'SO UP' with T2 Stags being a stuart with an M8 gun, Croms still work great btw.
But there is so many things with British that are so wrong. T0 armored vehicle, Such a slow moving faction without the help of LT, MOVING YO BASE INTO YO OPPONENTS FACE, Soldier armor that is so strong vs Wehr T1 bullets, things like the way rifle grenades work. Half of the units and abilities being useless. They need a big overhaul.

TLDR About OF: theres too many things wrong. (Drop that subject)

I suddenly remember why i abandoned the GR.org balance forums a long time ago...

I suddenly remember why i abandoned the GR.org balance forums a long time ago...

Ye go balance your Modern Combat Mod , that's so great and you only need to argue with yourself; which, I imagine, will already be a big struggle.

Ye go balance your Modern Combat Mod , that's so great and you only need to argue with yourself; which, I imagine, will already be a big struggle.

I have handed over the responsibility of MC to Darkbladecr more than 6 months ago to concentrate on my thesis. So i am not involved in any of the (balance) changes since then.
I also fail to see how that has anything to do with the mess that was the GR.org balancing forum. But go on with your 20 pages changelist and have fun playing it.

And you sir, being a great scientist and shits, good luck with your thesis.

This is but a small preview of all the balancing fun we'll have for discussion when CoH 2 gets released.

This is but a small preview of all the balancing fun we'll have for discussion when CoH 2 gets released.

Oh joy.

It kind of shows the need for a balance subforum though, just so that bullshit won't spill over in the other forums.

Dood MGs are onlt like 250 mp but they can beat like 4o00 mp worth of conscripts roflOP nerf pls

Relic pls

This is but a small preview of all the balancing fun we'll have for discussion when CoH 2 gets released.

I seem to recall Ami mentioning a good candidate for the name of a balance subforum being "The Toilet" earlier in this thread. Shouldn't come to much surprise as to why at this point.

Every house needs a toilet!

You can only make a fair judgement after playing (or maybe watching) the game plenty of times and understanding it, to get a good idea what's balanced and what's not.

COH2 balance forum will be filled with Skirmish players who will talk bullshit. That's why you need a toilet, to flush the bullshit down from time to time.

Just make a 1v1 and a team game balance forum. TBH most of the bad stuff would be removed.

1 question , why is the wehr mortar superior to the us ? it does not make a lot of sense to give an army campy structure , the best late game , all the counters they need by t2 , and superior early counters to anti campy units as well , its like a loophole . To get a better understanding of what i am saying imagine if the us sniper as he is and the wehr one with larger range (without any vet) , would that not be stupid ?

us mortar can come a lot earlier; you can always barrage, move, barrage, move...it's what you should do anyways.

also: if he got a mortar, thats one less "fighting" unit on the field.

and the argument that wehrs late game is better than that of US is at least debatable, if not outright untrue.

us mortar can come a lot earlier; you can always barrage, move, barrage, move...it's what you should do anyways.

wehr sniper comes earlier , mg too but their counterparts are not in any way better (talking about 1v1 )

also: if he got a mortar, thats one less "fighting" unit on the field.

well wehrmacht doesnt need field presence in the same way us needs it and since usually they get a mortar for counter barages then you have one less as well not to mention that you will need to spend more resources and time to build wsc while your opponent would go krieg barracks 99% of the time, lastlty wehr mortar is really good at harassing caping units , anhilating whole squads at a time , plus that with their crazy splash they make for good soft counters against snipers ( not that this is the proper way to deal with snipers but just saying )

and the argument that wehrs late game is better than that of US is at least debatable, if not outright untrue.

while not 100 % , most us victories come in the mid game after a successfull early game , when the game goes on and on wehr begins to get a gradual advantage , even the infamous vet 3 rifle can get countered by vet 3 oswind , puma , stuh and even p4 . Omcg requires an already adequate unit composition otherwise its just too random unless your willing to try to be play with popcap , bombing run is unreliable expensive and comes way too late , Armor company can even things out but calli and pershing come in really late and even then , stukas repair bunkers and vet 3 panthers are good enough to give you more than a fighting chance ( not to mention the doctrinal solutions )

If anything needs changing in OF its the fucking name. Opposing fronts? Stating the obvious could only be made more effective if the game was called Company of Heroes: Shooting each other with guns. Thats my main worry (at least until Company of Heroes 2: it's getting cold comes out.)

wehr sniper comes earlier , mg too but their counterparts are not in any way better (talking about 1v1 )

both the sniper and the MG could be the US players first unit (and before you complain: US MG has same DMG/burst and same suppression/burst as MG42, was wider arc but lower range and shoots half as fast (but bursts last twice as long and it's 10MP (used to be 20) cheaper)

while not 100 % , most us victories come in the mid game after a successfull early game , when the game goes on and on wehr begins to get a gradual advantage

in the early game, a good flank alone can almost decide the game... later on, that doesnt cut it anymore. if this means the game is unbalanced, because you can't just move all your units to a certain point and kill everything thats there... well, yeah. the game is biased towards late game wehr.

even the infamous vet 3 rifle can get countered by vet 3 oswind , puma , stuh and even p4 . Omcg requires an already adequate unit composition otherwise its just too random unless your willing to try to be play with popcap , bombing run is unreliable expensive and comes way too late , Armor company can even things out but calli and pershing come in really late and even then , stukas repair bunkers and vet 3 panthers are good enough to give you more than a fighting chance ( not to mention the doctrinal solutions )

rifles get countered by ostwinds, panthers get countered by AT guns, KCH get countered by crocs, pios get countered by snipers.... i can go on with the list, every unit has counters.. if you think you can play out an entire game with T1 units... yeah, <opposing faction> lategame is OP.

OMCG is a wheel of fortune, but it is always 1 thing: MP effective. you always spend less MP on a OMCG than you would have building all those units. and thats what the (late) game is all about: being MP efficient (note: not effective, but efficient). OMCG can be inefficient MP-wise when you would have needed other units... but then you should have built those in the first place (again, don't expect to win a game with only T1 units).

stukas: 1 stuka is what? 220 MP, 25 or so fuel, 150 ammo.... PLUS he has to tech to T4... you're telling me your opponent was able to spend over 600 mp, 150 ammo and close to 100 fuel on a non-fighting unit without you being able to capitalise on that? a rep bunker is a somewhat more expensive pioneer squad that you can only use to repair, but won't cost you any more MP in the future (keyword: MP efficiency).
Vet 3 panthers: 1 vet 3 panther (assuming he already teched to T4 and built a KKC, and the T4 building... which are all very expensive things to do) is 1300 MP and what... 200+ fuel? again: he is spending the MP income of about 5 minutes and the fuel income of let's say 10 minutes on a single unit without you being able to field a counter?

if you think wehr is OP, go play wehr for a while... i'll expect you back here complaining about how OP US stuff is ;-)

1 question , why is the wehr mortar superior to the us ?

Because the US mortar has better targets. Mortars are at their best against stationary targets, which the US mortar can find in bunkers and MGs, and US usually gets more out of the smoke cover than Wehr does. In contrast, the only stationary unit the wehr mortar will face is capping units and suppressed units, as well as other mortars and late game AT guns.

I almost never use the wehr mortar. I don't use the US mortar that often either, but I still think it has more uses than the Wehr one. Still, most of the things mortars do well, snipers can do as well.

actually, he was asking why the wehr mortar was superior... and it is because of it's higher range mainly (it does a little more dmg too afaik, can't recall how much exactly though, go look it up on coh-stats.net)

oh god i spent an hour on writing a great wall of a text to reply to both of you only to get a blue screen up my rectum i ll try to answer tomorrow

but i will say one thing i have not lost 1 wehrmacht game wihout making some kind of a big blunder so no i will not complain that us is op