Ram

Because you are mentioning one single thing out of game full of gimmicky abilities, units and call-ins.

Posting in the "ram"-thread I am sure you can figure out why that is.

Then you are having biased opinion, and giving example that suits only your biased opinion

I think you illustrate my earlier point quite well, by getting all defensive and assuming that others are biased. I use ram a lot myself, and I am aware that russians needs something to even out the AT-gap. I have stated that in other discussions about ram and agreed that if ram was removed Soviets would need something to compensate.

You make ram look like 'i win ability' that there is no defense against, when it isn't so.

FYI, others play against and use Ram. It's affected by RNG in both directions, sometimes it hurts Soviet Player sometimes it hurts German player.

Again, I have written this on several occations. Ram is to RNG-dependant, and is frustrating for both the rammer and rammed. Wasting a t-34 isnt fun, and having your heavy tank rendered useless isnt either.

I hate Ram, and a lot of other people that are arguing with you and other biased opinions are not very happy with Ram ability.

Yet here I am arguing with you about Ram. That should be a clue for you

If thats the case, I have no idea what you are doing right now. You seem to have assumed I was some kind of german fanboy out to nerf the Soviets, when it seems we are in total agreement about ram. Awkward.

You are not objective in your analysis and offer absolutely no alternative or insight into what would happen if this annoying ability is removed without adequate nerfs to units you love or replacing it with something that is capable of performing the same thing.

Units I love? Its a game, I dont love units in a game. If its that serious to some of you guys I obviously stepped into a hornets nest. I gave my oppinion about an ability in the game and a suggestion for a change. I never said changes would have to happen in a vacuum, and I have, as mentioned, said that Soviets should be compensated somehow.

Ram is specifically designed to give Soviet army weapon against German 'heavies' as you called them, not to ram halftracks or stugs
Most people aren't stupid enough to stand in front of the 2 Su85's and Zis gun for 5 minutes with their Tiger or Panther.
Most people support their Panthers and Tigers and it is very hard to kill them with the ram, let alone trying to button them down for 5 minutes with rifles while they are supported by their own 'German combined arms'(yes that exist as well)

All well and good. As it seems we both agree that the AT-gap should be filled by something less awkward and more tacticly interesting than ram I dont se any reason to argue further. I honestly think your las line says more about you than it does about me though.

Here's the thing though, sometimes just because of RNG, it punishes a player who did not overextend their tank, and that is wrong. Ram is too random. It is a poorly designed ability flawed at its core and should be removed.

Of course I understand that Soviets would need something to help T3 take on Ost tanks, and it should get it. I don't know if an upgrade to the 85 would be answer, it would need to be checked by the balance team. However, I fully agree that any change to ram should result in a buff to Soviet AT. Forcing Soviet players to rely on 76 and AT guns is not a good idea.

Agreed. Maybe simply increasing the Pen of the T34/76 to that of the P4 would do it. But Relic doesnt seem to want that to happen. Plus it would pretty much leave the T34/85 is a weird spot.

Relic doesnt seem too keen on removing Ram though or they would have done so ages ago.

Agreed. Maybe simply increasing the Pen of the T34/76 to that of the P4 would do it. But Relic doesnt seem to want that to happen. Plus it would pretty much leave the T34/85 is a weird spot.

Relic doesnt seem too keen on removing Ram though or they would have done so ages ago.

I Dont think they will ever remove it. but i do hope they nerf it into oblivion. Despite this i don't think soviet AT is lacking at the moment and is capable of dealing with both the tiger and panther in the form of the su85.

At the moment its simply not viable to use the panther at all. if one ram can knock it out then your best of spamming p4's. but that makes for a boring game where the only viable german tank is the p4 to counter t-34 spam.

[...]At the moment its simply not viable to use the panther at all. if one ram can knock it out then your best of spamming p4's. but that makes for a boring game where the only viable german tank is the p4 to counter t-34 spam.

What a bunch of ... Have you even consider that the problem is not Ram itself but you and how you handle your units? Have you ever consider to make the effort and improve your skill? Sorry but when I read that Panthers aren't viable it just makes me wonder. The best AT tank in the game not being viable?

What a bunch of ... Have you even consider that the problem is not Ram itself but you and how you handle your units? Have you ever consider to make the effort and improve your skill? Sorry but when I read that Panthers aren't viable it just makes me wonder. The best AT tank in the game not being viable?

if one ram can counter the panther then its role as dedicated tank destroyer is no longer valid . you better stick to the p4 as their are far less risks involved. by the time you have your first panther you can have 2 p4's out and working on the third. while micro may safe your panther one wrong move and its gg. so i rather not take the risk.

if one ram can counter the panther then its role as dedicated tank destroyer is no longer valid . you better stick to the p4 as their are far less risks involved. by the time you have your first panther you can have 2 p4's out and working on the third. while micro may safe your panther one wrong move and its gg. so i rather not take the risk.

50 range, better speed, tons of grens between you and t34.

Yes, when someone says its not worth getting a panther/tiger it pretty much equals to screaming "I'm a noob" all over the place.

If you can advise SU-85 players to keep range from panther, then nothing stops you to do the same against T34. Nothing except lack of proper micro skill that is.

if one ram can counter the panther then its role as dedicated tank destroyer is no longer valid . you better stick to the p4 as their are far less risks involved. by the time you have your first panther you can have 2 p4's out and working on the third. while micro may safe your panther one wrong move and its gg. so i rather not take the risk.

Ram counters your Panther because you're letting your opponent to do this. There's the key to your problem. Think how you can avoid ram and try to apply this in game.

RAM? Pop smoke and watch the T34 break its own engine

I Dont think they will ever remove it. but i do hope they nerf it into oblivion. Despite this i don't think soviet AT is lacking at the moment and is capable of dealing with both the tiger and panther in the form of the su85.

At the moment its simply not viable to use the panther at all. if one ram can knock it out then your best of spamming p4's. but that makes for a boring game where the only viable german tank is the p4 to counter t-34 spam.

Your thinking of only team games.

If the SU has T34s he doesnt have SU85s. This is the dilemma. Also in team games its not like 2 SU players can spam SU85s and T34s. One will usually have T3 one will have T4. So if the T4 teammate loses his SU85s (which he will because they are just soo soo bad at getting away from anything) you cant back him up by replacing it. You can just spam more T34s...

@JHeartless
Waste of time replaying to him, he believes firmly that soviet T3 should be vet feeder for ost panzers and thinks soviets can reliably build T3 and T4 in same game. But what we can expect form 4v4 one faction hero?

Ram is a horrible ability and should be removed. Say this as a Soviet player.

They should remove it and then rebalance soviet AT.

50 range, better speed, tons of grens between you and t34.

Yes, when someone says its not worth getting a panther/tiger it pretty much equals to screaming "I'm a noob" all over the place.

If you can advise SU-85 players to keep range from panther, then nothing stops you to do the same against T34. Nothing except lack of proper micro skill that is.

Doest matter. their is still something called acceleration and deceleration. If the panther is moving forward when the ram starts you can longer avoid it except when you have blitz. only when your standing still can you avoid a ram at vet 0.

Also avoid it sounds but im not a korean and if even make simple mistake or 1 second of distraction and you can lose a very expensive tank. so why the fuck should i use it when the p4 performs much better and is not cost effective to ram. so its much safer to use.

Doest matter. their is still something called acceleration and deceleration. If the panther is moving forward when the ram starts you can longer avoid it except when you have blitz. only when your standing still can you avoid a ram at vet 0.

Also avoid it sounds but im not a korean and if even make simple mistake or 1 second of distraction and you can lose a very expensive tank. so why the fuck should i use it when the p4 performs much better and is not cost effective to ram. so its much safer to use.

Ram doesnt kill the tank. That 1 second mistake means more likely the Soviet has lost his T34 and you smoke and limp away for repairs. And thats IF it penetrates.

Thats a more believable scenerio if your using maybe a P4. But a Panther still has 960 HPs that would take what 4 Zis guns and Mark Vehcile to take it out before it limps home?

TBH I only EVER Ram as a last resort and if I have a veritble herd of T34s AND I am behind my own lines.

Because against a Panther there is a very good chance your just going to stun it. Unless you LOL flank the fastest vehicle in the game......

Your thinking of only team games.

If the SU has T34s he doesnt have SU85s. This is the dilemma. Also in team games its not like 2 SU players can spam SU85s and T34s. One will usually have T3 one will have T4. So if the T4 teammate loses his SU85s (which he will because they are just soo soo bad at getting away from anything) you cant back him up by replacing it. You can just spam more T34s...

Speaking from a 1 vs 1 perspective their is only one reason why people use tier 3: and that is ram . The soviets have plenty of doctrines that have good AI or generalist tanks but no real doctrine that AT. it gives an indication how OP ram. it overshadows su85 that is the soviets primary AT unit. And that is pretty fucked up balance

Speaking from a 1 vs 1 perspective their is only one reason why people use tier 3: and that is ram . The soviets have plenty of doctrines that have good AI or generalist tanks but no real doctrine that AT. it gives an indication how OP ram. it overshadows su85 that is the soviets primary AT unit. And that is pretty fucked up balance

ummm noooooooooo

I use it for the new M5 since its comparable to a Flampanzerwagen now.....Infantry punishment is always my goal...yknow play to a factions strenghts.

The T34s are used if Ost went T3 and I have mark vehicle.

Ram doesnt kill the tank. That 1 second mistake means more likely the Soviet has lost his T34 and you smoke and limp away for repairs. And thats IF it penetrates.

Thats a more believable scenerio if your using maybe a P4. But a Panther still has 960 HPs that would take what 4 Zis guns and Mark Vehcile to take it out before it limps home?

TBH I only EVER Ram as a last resort and if I have a veritble herd of T34s AND I am behind my own lines.

Because against a Panther there is a very good chance your just going to stun it. Unless you LOL flank the fastest vehicle in the game......

And sometimes it doesn't and you can type gg. Im not going to take that risk. might as well use the p4.

ummm noooooooooo

I use it for the new M5 since its comparable to a Flampanzerwagen now.....Infantry punishment is always my goal...yknow play to a factions strenghts.

The T34s are used if Ost went T3 and I have mark vehicle.

the m5 buff is recent. people where spamming t-34's long before then. and i believe their is only one viable doctrine with mark vehicle which has the t-34/85 as well. so why use the t-34 and not go tier 4 for AT? oh i remember : RAM!

And sometimes it doesn't and you can type gg. Im not going to take that risk. might as well use the p4.

Cool. Thats your right. I feel sorry for the P4 TBH (T34/85 LOL, T34/76 with mark vehicle LOL, always able to AT nade it without it bouncing at Vet 0/1, Ram always working on it at Vet 0/1).

On the other hand the P5 is stupidly effective (veritable immunity to a frontal AT nade, Able to bounce Zis shots, Faster then a F1, as many HPs as an IS2, Ram resistant) . It shouldnt be able to be spammed like it is considering how hard it is to take out a single P5.

I agree, this seems reasonable.

The only problem I have with ram is that since the T-34/85 has become a common unit, the number of ramming has also increased.

If the problem really lies in lack of anti tank capabilities in Soviet T3, let ram on the T-34/76. But it should be removed from the T-34/85. It would make more sense balance-wise and historically. It seems more logical that an under-gunned T-34/76 rams its target, but not so much the T-34/85.

Then replace the ram on the T-34/85 with something else.

Atm the game seems more like: "Oh the hard counter to my T-34s has arrived, lol ram."

No AT in T3? Increase the penetration of the SU-76