Soviets Advanced Warfare Tactics Commander

You're paying for weapon upgrade. You get this ability as a bonus. It comes at 3CP because of the weapon upgrade.
You have chance to use it after each engagement. If you don't do it it's your own fault.
It shows EVERYTHING on the map for couple of seconds. You'll be able to gain this Intel after next fight as there are always some wounded models on the ground. Again if you don't it's your own fault.
Lastely I can tell when my opponent is going without Radio intercept based on the map I can roughly say what's going to build seeing his initial units composition as well.

I didn't say G43 interrogation is bad, but they're honestly not in the same field as far as intel goes.

Radio intercept works at 00:00. It works while there's no engagement going on. It works if you lose an engagement / are driven back and don't get a chance to use interrogation. It works if a G43 model doesn't happen to be around (had to retreat, on a different front, whatever). It works all the time instead of periodically.

For that matter, G43 interrogate only reliably works when you have decisively won a skirmish. You're not going to rush your G43s out of cover just because one conscript model went down without risking them getting killed or otherwise taken out of the fight. It works if you catch a lone squad way out of position and get lucky that the model gets wounded instead of dying, but that's about it.

I play about 50/50 sov/ost and 1v1/2v2 and I can count the number of interrogations I've pulled off (a bit of hyperbole over so many games).

EDIT: To be clear, I think both are kind of lame abilities that remove a lot of reaction, shock, and planning. Just that radio intercept is much worse. G43 would be fine with just having the interrogation removed, it's a good enough upgrade by itself.

I didn't say G43 interrogation is bad, but they're honestly not in the same field as far as intel goes.

Radio intercept works at 00:00. It works while there's no engagement going on. It works if you lose an engagement / are driven back and don't get a chance to use interrogation. It works if a G43 model doesn't happen to be around (had to retreat, on a different front, whatever). It works all the time instead of periodically.

For that matter, G43 interrogate only reliably works when you have decisively won a skirmish. You're not going to rush your G43s out of cover just because one conscript model went down without risking them getting killed or otherwise taken out of the fight. It works if you catch a lone squad way out of position and get lucky that the model gets wounded instead of dying, but that's about it.

I play about 50/50 sov/ost and 1v1/2v2 and I can count the number of interrogations I've pulled off (a bit of hyperbole over so many games).

EDIT: To be clear, I think both are kind of lame abilities that remove a lot of reaction, shock, and planning. Just that radio intercept is much worse. G43 would be fine with just having the interrogation removed, it's a good enough upgrade by itself.

Of course they're not on the same field as Interrogation is so much better. It comes later, yes but gives you so much intel. As I said if you're unable to utilise its potential or simply forget to use it it's really your own fault and something you can work on.
Radio only tells you what's being build but you can predict this yo great extend anyway as there are not so many build orders in CoH2 anyway.

You mean "WHEN" not "where" right? So?
And radio intercept does not give you any info on weapon upgrade, so seeing FHT or LMG's and semi-automatic rifles is still a surprise.

No, it does tell you where. It pings it on the map.

I should point out that it also tells you where the enemy caches are.

Yes, I know.
And?
Interrogation tells you everything, what units are where, what tiers are being built and it comes with best long range upgrade.

If it was fine with partisans and armored assault, then its fine with SAW as well.

But Interrogation isn't passive and Radio Intercept is and tells you everything.

It was only no big deal with those doctrines because they were honestly lackluster in the previous meta and were not used often so nobody noticed (who the hell was going to use partisans when there's the free ToW Shock Army available MVGAME).

But it's good that you brought up Partisans. Let's make another Soviet commander with PPSH, single T34-85 call-in, the regular version of IL2 strafe, auto-repair, and the maphack ability.

We'll call it Super Advanced Warfare Tactics.

I'd pay for that.

But Interrogation isn't passive and Radio Intercept is and tells you everything.

Stop repeating that like some kind of holy mantra.
Interrogation gives you MORE info then radio intercept, so if intercept tells you everything, then interrogation does what? See into the future? All it tells is WHAT is being built and WHERE it is being built.

Meanwhile interrogation shows on map EVERYTHING, which units are where, which tiers are where, tracks unit movement. THAT is everything.

It was only no big deal with those doctrines because they were honestly lackluster in the previous meta and were not used often so nobody noticed (who the hell was going to use partisans when there's the free ToW Shock Army available MVGAME).

Oh but wait guys, let's not forget the Partisans maphack; just in case you didn't remember everything intercepted.

If its fine for the other doctrines, then it is fine for this one as well.

If there was ABSOLUTELY ZERO issues with partisan doctrine, which have 2 abilities of this kind, then there is absolutely ZERO issues with one of them in any other doctrine.

Quit bitching for the sake of bitching, you can't double standard that, its either fine for everything or not and since since day 1 it was fine, its also fine with this commander.

Are you serious? So you're saying that it's not enough for you to see the ping when they build it? Do mines and bunkers and caches move after they're built? No, so I guess it's just too hard for you to remember. My bad.

The German one gets "more" because you actually have to spend munitions to get it. AND it's at 3CP. AND you need that upgraded unit there after a fight and not in retreat.

There is no double standard here. Just because no one noticed something is OP (because it wasn't being used) doesn't mean it isn't.

I'll use your own argument against you: Recon Run + call-in arty is fine on Joint Operations. Is Recon + Stuka Dive Bomb fine on Jaeger Armor?

You should take a leaf from your own book and quit bitching. Because that's all you do. In every thread. Slamming your pro-Soviet hammer down on anyone who dares suggest something they have is "good."

Radio only tells you what's being build but you can predict this yo great extend anyway as there are not so many build orders in CoH2 anyway.

That's just plain wrong. Like period that is just wrong. If I see my opponent is going Gren-Mg-gren I know that an early flank can win the game in 2 minutes. I don't need to worry about a second MG supporting it because I know the german will not have one. I see he goes sniper first I can cap the whole map indiscriminately and win early game handily. More over, I can tell by his teching when he is going to have tanks. That allows me to delay my AT gun/AT nade upgrades until I see this. I don't need to have any premature counters.

Germans conversely, don't get G43s till 3 CP, which can be after a fast T70 hits the field. I can't rely on interrogations to know what the Soviet is planning, I have to have some form of AT out or coming out as the T70 hits to counter it. And to have that timing I need to reliably predict my enemies stategy and have good game sense. With radio intercept, you do not need to have this skill. Period. I'm not saying the ability is overpowered, but you shouldn't underestimate the strength of knowing the enemies tech as it happens 100% of the time.

It is not relevant to compare one ability to another for terms of balancing - each ability should be looked at in itself (and especially with two completely different ones such as Radio Intercept and G43 interrogation)

Also saying that an ability must be balanced because in it's previous incarnations it appeared in underpowered commanders is not a good argument either.


On topic I would say that this commander as a whole is nice and wish that all others felt as "polished". I'll put it down to luck more than it being intentional however

That's just plain wrong. Like period that is just wrong. If I see my opponent is going Gren-Mg-gren I know that an early flank can win the game in 2 minutes. I don't need to worry about a second MG supporting it because I know the german will not have one. I see he goes sniper first I can cap the whole map indiscriminately and win early game handily. More over, I can tell by his teching when he is going to have tanks. That allows me to delay my AT gun/AT nade upgrades until I see this. I don't need to have any premature counters.

Germans conversely, don't get G43s till 3 CP, which can be after a fast T70 hits the field. I can't rely on interrogations to know what the Soviet is planning, I have to have some form of AT out or coming out as the T70 hits to counter it. And to have that timing I need to reliably predict my enemies stategy and have good game sense. With radio intercept, you do not need to have this skill. Period. I'm not saying the ability is overpowered, but you shouldn't underestimate the strength of knowing the enemies tech as it happens 100% of the time.

Maybe I said it wrong. What I ment there is nothing you can ship in early game that you won't be able to conquer with standard set of units you can get from basic building.
All radio really does it let you build the counter a bit earlier than usual. I never said it's a bad ability but is not OP as well. In fact German have access to far more potent equivalent that comes free with gun upgrade.

To me, this is just a top doctrine like elite troops.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/14272/radio-intercept

I think Radio intercept has been pretty much covered In relation to the current context of COH2 commanders, I like Stephens idea on the T34-85 adjustment for this commander.

An overhaul of the entire system of commanders for both factions would be preferable of course, and again, many threads and posts have covered that.

To me, this is just a top doctrine like elite troops.

Oh get out of here. There is so much hyperbole and double standards and BS on these forums it's ridiculous. They are no way in the same league, you are kidding yourself.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/14272/radio-intercept

I think Radio intercept has been pretty much covered In relation to the current context of COH2 commanders, I like Stephens idea on the T34-85 adjustment for this commander.

An overhaul of the entire system of commanders for both factions would be preferable of course, and again, many threads and posts have covered that.

Yeah ok, if they bring back the dual T34/85 ability, I'll quit this game. Stephen's idea sucks. The single call in is one of the few "balance" changes they've made that actually makes sense, and here you are advocating against it. It even costs more for one because of the "opportunity" cost as stated by the balance team.

You make me laugh. So is it the radio intercept that's all of a sudden so blatantly OP, or the single more expensive russian panzer IV equivalent?

The only, and I mean only thing I'll agree with you on is that the whole doctrine design is awful compared to COH1.

There's no shock troopers in this doctrine, which people always complain about. No guards + sniper strat to complain about, no insane IL2 strafing run that people complained about. None of that, but people like you still insist on nerfing everything into the ground - ESPECIALLY since it doesn't contain any of the above things that were all "major" balance issues. It will never be enough I suppose.

Hi astro_Zombie, I believe my original posts and subsequent one's explain my argument pretty clearly and concisely, in reply to your queries. You also seem to imply I have a hidden agenda behind the thread, I do not believe I have publicly expressed any bias towards either faction nor do I hold any. My playercard and posting history should suffice as evidence to this effect.

I'm happy to continue discussing the topic, but please refrain from emotive arguments/language and be constructive, or I'm afraid I simply won't engage.

Thanks,

I personally feel this is the best designed and balanced commander yet. I'd love to see them overhaul the other commanders to be just as useful, then maybe look at nerfing radio.

I feel if radio did get a nerf, the mine notifications and pushing it back to 1CP would be enough. At least you wouldn't immediately know your opponents build order. Alternatively, a warning to the German player when its active would be great. If you see G43's, at least you know interrogation is likely from the German player.

Also don't forget how crippling it is to choose your commander from the get go - the Russians lose all flexiblity (not that they have a lot in the first place). If you know radio is active, you know to expect mass conscript spam or heavy armour down the line.

Actually last game I played as Soviet radio intercept gave me wrong position for a bunker so it's either not as accurate as everyone is thinking or due to overall spam of units, buildings and everything that's going on on the minimap I miss interpreted its position.
I'd say that's a fair trade.

Where to get this commander?? (mayber a stupid question..)

neither link on Steam is working:
http://www.reddit.com/r/steamdeals/comments/1yblzc/free_dlc_coh_2_soviet_commander_advanced_warfare/

It was available for 5 days after the Make War Not Love event. It is currently not available for purchase.

Sounds like the main issue is radio intercept. We will look into it.