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PPSH x3 Aftermath Update

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21 Feb 2014, 16:09 PM
#41
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

PPSH seems fine to me.

I will say advanced warfare doctrine has amazing synergy with T1-T4 play. Getting cons+snipers to early Katusyha+su76 or Su85 and then T34/85 call in?! TROLOLOLOL.
21 Feb 2014, 16:22 PM
#42
avatar of Chuck Norris

Posts: 93

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2014, 14:25 PMakosi


MHT
Smoke
G43
redistribute resources
Tiger


Ambush camo - 1 CP
MHT - 2 CP
G43 package - 3 CP
Command tank - 8 CP
Tiger Ace - 14 CP
21 Feb 2014, 16:32 PM
#43
avatar of Aurgelwulf

Posts: 184



Ambush camo - 1 CP
MHT - 2 CP
G43 package - 3 CP
Command tank - 8 CP
Tiger Ace - 14 CP


Yeah, I'd replace troop training from my list and replace it with MHT as well now.
21 Feb 2014, 16:52 PM
#44
avatar of Stoffa

Posts: 333

Just gonna call it: the ppsh buff broke the game in 1v1.
21 Feb 2014, 17:16 PM
#45
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

I agree, the doctrine reads like a soviet players wish list. If relic wants to make a German wish list then here is mine:

Tiger -9cp
Command Tank - 7cp
Supply Drop Zone - 3cp
G43 Upgrade - 2cp
Troop Training - 0cp


Replace Conscript Repair with AT-Gun Ambush Camouflage or Incendiary Barrage and it's my wishlist ;)
22 Feb 2014, 00:18 AM
#46
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

The PPSh is okay, but it needs to be more expensive, at least 45m. Possibly 60 though, after all Ostheer needs to pay 60 for their upgrades.
22 Feb 2014, 01:48 AM
#47
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

The PPSh is okay, but it needs to be more expensive, at least 45m. Possibly 60 though, after all Ostheer needs to pay 60 for their upgrades.


As long as its apples to apples DPS wise 60 Muni is fine. If its not make it less. But right now it seems to cheap to me as well. The new doctrine doesnt have guards or mark vehicle which is what eats up my muni if I play Soviet.

So if I got a ton of muni why not spam PPSH? The entry barrier isnt there in my eyes.
22 Feb 2014, 02:43 AM
#48
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Exactly, there's no reason not to buy PPSh, it's a no brainer. Your squad will always have 3 (a PPSh soldier dies, it gets passed on to a Mosin user), and they can never be dropped. In fact, they completely invalidate Assault Grenadiers, and force all Grenadiers to have LMG 42's or kite with G43's.
22 Feb 2014, 02:57 AM
#49
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

They make Cons viable assault infantry, but should only do so in doctrines devoid of elite infantry.

With the PPSh upgrade they force you to pay attention to your German infantry and support your MG42s properly--the MG42 is your go-to counter that should be supported by LMGs or StG 44s (rather than simply massed StGs for late game combat).

Frankly, I'd rather have DPs as a doctrinal unlock, since Cons are too squishy (imho) to be worth it as "assault" infantry. Plus I'd be reminded of BARs from vCoH <444>3. Oh well.
22 Feb 2014, 03:02 AM
#50
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Feb 2014, 02:57 AMVolsky
They make Cons viable assault infantry, but should only do so in doctrines devoid of elite infantry.

With the PPSh upgrade they force you to pay attention to your German infantry and support your MG42s properly--the MG42 is your go-to counter that should be supported by LMGs or StG 44s (rather than simply massed StGs for late game combat).

Frankly, I'd rather have DPs as a doctrinal unlock, since Cons are too squishy (imho) to be worth it as "assault" infantry. Plus I'd be reminded of BARs from vCoH <444>3. Oh well.


Yeah I would agree with you normally but now with more than one you get that critical mass effect going on. Where you have enough Scripts that just focus down infantry so fast that they dont lose alot of models.

And when I have PPSH I dont even think about STs or heaven forbid Penal Batts!

And when I dont use PPSH I miss it like CRACK!

So there is something wrong there. But then again hey Ost has the G43 blah blah blah. I dont know how long its been since wooof updated the DPS spreadsheet but I would like to see a DPS Comparison.

If its less than the G43/LMG42 then cool we are good and I am just ungimped and feeling POWERFUL but if its close it should be more expensive.
22 Feb 2014, 03:36 AM
#51
avatar of Speculator

Posts: 157

The DPS spreadsheet is updated to the new patch. Just checked. G43 has more damage, and works great at all ranges. PPSH is only effective at close range, and loses its half its DPS at every range after that.

I don't see a problem with the PPSH except players are dealing with something that used to be a rarity in the field, and are having a difficult time getting used to it (aka, radio intercept complaints).
22 Feb 2014, 03:53 AM
#52
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 952 | Subs: 1


I don't see a problem with the PPSH except players are dealing with something that used to be a rarity in the field, and are having a difficult time getting used to it (aka, radio intercept complaints).


PPSH was never a rarity in the field- they've been a perennial favourite throughout the game's short history. The Guard Rifles commander, I bet, has probably been the single most used commander in 1v1 overall.
22 Feb 2014, 07:19 AM
#53
avatar of Speculator

Posts: 157

I always assumed Guard Motor was more popular than Guard Rifle. It's kind of hard to know how popular the PPSH was before the patch without statistical data from Relic (I for one, would love infographics. Some of the best things from community managers of other games are infographics...people love pictures).

However, a good indication of how popular certain commanders were, is by jumping onto team games. I play a lot of team games, and seeing PPSH cons were a rarity pre-aftermath. Lots of people rather rush vehicles. This is all subjective of course.

Exactly, there's no reason not to buy PPSh, it's a no brainer.

Well, it's no brainer for Grens to always go LMG whenever possible. Exception being that the LMG does drop at a rare rate after death. In the end, the PPSH is doctrinal, just like the G43 (neither are droppable). Though it might be awesome if any weapon beyond the standard rifle had a small chance or dropping.
22 Feb 2014, 09:57 AM
#54
avatar of griezell

Posts: 125

ofcorse its a no brainer its in the fucking doctrin you pick.
you take a commander with ppsh to take the gunsss
22 Feb 2014, 10:17 AM
#55
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

The PPSh is okay, but it needs to be more expensive, at least 45m. Possibly 60 though, after all Ostheer needs to pay 60 for their upgrades.


Sure, why not, lets buff it to the level of 60 muni upgrades as well.
22 Feb 2014, 10:23 AM
#56
avatar of Rizza
Donator 22

Posts: 101

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2014, 16:52 PMStoffa
Just gonna call it: the ppsh buff broke the game in 1v1.


I agree, before I'd be able to drive my full health panther past a two ppsh conscript squad and the conscripts had to retreat, but now with that one extra ppsh my full health panther gets destroyed as soon as I get within range of that one extra ppsh.
22 Feb 2014, 11:17 AM
#57
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

From what I had chance to play after recent patch it looks like the favourite thing for a Soviet player to do is to take 3-5 squads of Conscripts with PPSHs upgrade and just walk them into your Grens.
I can see how this can be problematic but I think is time to learn crowd control guys and teach those Soviets a lesson.
The upgrade is still not even remotely as powerful as it was before the nerf. We only see it a lot recently because it comes with this new popular and free commander.
MG42 play is a key to defeat it. My usual build is Gren, MG42, Gren, Gren, Gren and then Sniper/ Mortar - into T2
22 Feb 2014, 11:42 AM
#58
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Well, it's no brainer for Grens to always go LMG whenever possible. Exception being that the LMG does drop at a rare rate after death. In the end, the PPSH is doctrinal, just like the G43 (neither are droppable). Though it might be awesome if any weapon beyond the standard rifle had a small chance or dropping.


In the grand scheme of things, sure. But what I mean is, when you open with Grenadiers, you have to made decisions. Am I going to go rifle-grenade heavy, or should I wait for an LMG? What about after? Or should I save up for a Flame Half-Track? Later on you have to consider, should I use a Rifle-Grenade now? Spare for a Mine Field? Save for a Strafing Run?

As Soviets I don't find myself asking these questions, I mindlessly buy PPSh's on all squads and throw molotovs liberally, plant mines when I remember to, and I still sit on piles of munitions. It's part of the game design, Ostheer is inherently munitions heavy, and generally pays more for less. But I don't think it should be that way.
22 Feb 2014, 12:01 PM
#59
avatar of Rizza
Donator 22

Posts: 101



In the grand scheme of things, sure. But what I mean is, when you open with Grenadiers, you have to made decisions. Am I going to go rifle-grenade heavy, or should I wait for an LMG? What about after? Or should I save up for a Flame Half-Track? Later on you have to consider, should I use a Rifle-Grenade now? Spare for a Mine Field? Save for a Strafing Run?

As Soviets I don't find myself asking these questions, I mindlessly buy PPSh's on all squads and throw molotovs liberally, plant mines when I remember to, and I still sit on piles of munitions. It's part of the game design, Ostheer is inherently munitions heavy, and generally pays more for less. But I don't think it should be that way.


It's not 'mindless' to get the ppsh upgrade, you lose an doctrine ability (like shocks or guards) to get a basic unit upgrade so it should be good FFS.
22 Feb 2014, 12:08 PM
#60
avatar of Speculator

Posts: 157

snip

Sure, but those decisions are generally made early to mid game as Ost. PPSH show up during or after FHTs and PGs hit the field, maybe even closer to when T3 is being researched or built.

My experience is generally the complete opposite when MU's are concerned. Osts are MU heavy upfront and float more often during mid-late game (or used on Arty/Air strikes, which is seen more often than their Soviet counterparts) while Soviets drain their MUs more later to keep up with German's firepower superiority. Mining, buttoning, AT Grens, smokes, barrage, etc become so crucial for Soviets mid-late game, I often wish I had more MUs at hand and start to wonder "that FU cache I built should've been a MU cache."
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