PPSH seems fine to me.
I will say advanced warfare doctrine has amazing synergy with T1-T4 play. Getting cons+snipers to early Katusyha+su76 or Su85 and then T34/85 call in?! TROLOLOLOL.
PPSH x3 Aftermath Update
21 Feb 2014, 16:09 PM
#41
Posts: 915
21 Feb 2014, 16:22 PM
#42
Posts: 93
MHT
Smoke
G43
redistribute resources
Tiger
Ambush camo - 1 CP
MHT - 2 CP
G43 package - 3 CP
Command tank - 8 CP
Tiger Ace - 14 CP
21 Feb 2014, 16:32 PM
#43
Posts: 184
Ambush camo - 1 CP
MHT - 2 CP
G43 package - 3 CP
Command tank - 8 CP
Tiger Ace - 14 CP
Yeah, I'd replace troop training from my list and replace it with MHT as well now.
21 Feb 2014, 16:52 PM
#44
Posts: 333
Just gonna call it: the ppsh buff broke the game in 1v1.
21 Feb 2014, 17:16 PM
#45
7 Posts: 1664
I agree, the doctrine reads like a soviet players wish list. If relic wants to make a German wish list then here is mine:
Tiger -9cp
Command Tank - 7cp
Supply Drop Zone - 3cp
G43 Upgrade - 2cp
Troop Training - 0cp
Replace Conscript Repair with AT-Gun Ambush Camouflage or Incendiary Barrage and it's my wishlist
22 Feb 2014, 00:18 AM
#46
Posts: 4928
The PPSh is okay, but it needs to be more expensive, at least 45m. Possibly 60 though, after all Ostheer needs to pay 60 for their upgrades.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Feb 2014, 01:48 AM
#47
Posts: 1637
The PPSh is okay, but it needs to be more expensive, at least 45m. Possibly 60 though, after all Ostheer needs to pay 60 for their upgrades.
As long as its apples to apples DPS wise 60 Muni is fine. If its not make it less. But right now it seems to cheap to me as well. The new doctrine doesnt have guards or mark vehicle which is what eats up my muni if I play Soviet.
So if I got a ton of muni why not spam PPSH? The entry barrier isnt there in my eyes.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
22 Feb 2014, 02:43 AM
#48
Posts: 4928
Exactly, there's no reason not to buy PPSh, it's a no brainer. Your squad will always have 3 (a PPSh soldier dies, it gets passed on to a Mosin user), and they can never be dropped. In fact, they completely invalidate Assault Grenadiers, and force all Grenadiers to have LMG 42's or kite with G43's.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Feb 2014, 02:57 AM
#49
Posts: 344
They make Cons viable assault infantry, but should only do so in doctrines devoid of elite infantry.
With the PPSh upgrade they force you to pay attention to your German infantry and support your MG42s properly--the MG42 is your go-to counter that should be supported by LMGs or StG 44s (rather than simply massed StGs for late game combat).
Frankly, I'd rather have DPs as a doctrinal unlock, since Cons are too squishy (imho) to be worth it as "assault" infantry. Plus I'd be reminded of BARs from vCoH
. Oh well.
With the PPSh upgrade they force you to pay attention to your German infantry and support your MG42s properly--the MG42 is your go-to counter that should be supported by LMGs or StG 44s (rather than simply massed StGs for late game combat).
Frankly, I'd rather have DPs as a doctrinal unlock, since Cons are too squishy (imho) to be worth it as "assault" infantry. Plus I'd be reminded of BARs from vCoH
. Oh well.Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
22 Feb 2014, 03:02 AM
#50
Posts: 1637
They make Cons viable assault infantry, but should only do so in doctrines devoid of elite infantry.
With the PPSh upgrade they force you to pay attention to your German infantry and support your MG42s properly--the MG42 is your go-to counter that should be supported by LMGs or StG 44s (rather than simply massed StGs for late game combat).
Frankly, I'd rather have DPs as a doctrinal unlock, since Cons are too squishy (imho) to be worth it as "assault" infantry. Plus I'd be reminded of BARs from vCoH
Yeah I would agree with you normally but now with more than one you get that critical mass effect going on. Where you have enough Scripts that just focus down infantry so fast that they dont lose alot of models.
And when I have PPSH I dont even think about STs or heaven forbid Penal Batts!
And when I dont use PPSH I miss it like CRACK!
So there is something wrong there. But then again hey Ost has the G43 blah blah blah. I dont know how long its been since wooof updated the DPS spreadsheet but I would like to see a DPS Comparison.
If its less than the G43/LMG42 then cool we are good and I am just ungimped and feeling POWERFUL but if its close it should be more expensive.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
22 Feb 2014, 03:36 AM
#51
Posts: 157
The DPS spreadsheet is updated to the new patch. Just checked. G43 has more damage, and works great at all ranges. PPSH is only effective at close range, and loses its half its DPS at every range after that.
I don't see a problem with the PPSH except players are dealing with something that used to be a rarity in the field, and are having a difficult time getting used to it (aka, radio intercept complaints).
I don't see a problem with the PPSH except players are dealing with something that used to be a rarity in the field, and are having a difficult time getting used to it (aka, radio intercept complaints).
22 Feb 2014, 03:53 AM
#52
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
I don't see a problem with the PPSH except players are dealing with something that used to be a rarity in the field, and are having a difficult time getting used to it (aka, radio intercept complaints).
PPSH was never a rarity in the field- they've been a perennial favourite throughout the game's short history. The Guard Rifles commander, I bet, has probably been the single most used commander in 1v1 overall.
22 Feb 2014, 07:19 AM
#53
Posts: 157
I always assumed Guard Motor was more popular than Guard Rifle. It's kind of hard to know how popular the PPSH was before the patch without statistical data from Relic (I for one, would love infographics. Some of the best things from community managers of other games are infographics...people love pictures).
However, a good indication of how popular certain commanders were, is by jumping onto team games. I play a lot of team games, and seeing PPSH cons were a rarity pre-aftermath. Lots of people rather rush vehicles. This is all subjective of course.
Well, it's no brainer for Grens to always go LMG whenever possible. Exception being that the LMG does drop at a rare rate after death. In the end, the PPSH is doctrinal, just like the G43 (neither are droppable). Though it might be awesome if any weapon beyond the standard rifle had a small chance or dropping.
However, a good indication of how popular certain commanders were, is by jumping onto team games. I play a lot of team games, and seeing PPSH cons were a rarity pre-aftermath. Lots of people rather rush vehicles. This is all subjective of course.
Exactly, there's no reason not to buy PPSh, it's a no brainer.
Well, it's no brainer for Grens to always go LMG whenever possible. Exception being that the LMG does drop at a rare rate after death. In the end, the PPSH is doctrinal, just like the G43 (neither are droppable). Though it might be awesome if any weapon beyond the standard rifle had a small chance or dropping.
22 Feb 2014, 09:57 AM
#54
Posts: 125
ofcorse its a no brainer its in the fucking doctrin you pick.
you take a commander with ppsh to take the gunsss
you take a commander with ppsh to take the gunsss
22 Feb 2014, 10:17 AM
#55
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The PPSh is okay, but it needs to be more expensive, at least 45m. Possibly 60 though, after all Ostheer needs to pay 60 for their upgrades.
Sure, why not, lets buff it to the level of 60 muni upgrades as well.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Feb 2014, 10:23 AM
#56
2 Posts: 101
Just gonna call it: the ppsh buff broke the game in 1v1.
I agree, before I'd be able to drive my full health panther past a two ppsh conscript squad and the conscripts had to retreat, but now with that one extra ppsh my full health panther gets destroyed as soon as I get within range of that one extra ppsh.
22 Feb 2014, 11:17 AM
#57
Posts: 1439
From what I had chance to play after recent patch it looks like the favourite thing for a Soviet player to do is to take 3-5 squads of Conscripts with PPSHs upgrade and just walk them into your Grens.
I can see how this can be problematic but I think is time to learn crowd control guys and teach those Soviets a lesson.
The upgrade is still not even remotely as powerful as it was before the nerf. We only see it a lot recently because it comes with this new popular and free commander.
MG42 play is a key to defeat it. My usual build is Gren, MG42, Gren, Gren, Gren and then Sniper/ Mortar - into T2
I can see how this can be problematic but I think is time to learn crowd control guys and teach those Soviets a lesson.
The upgrade is still not even remotely as powerful as it was before the nerf. We only see it a lot recently because it comes with this new popular and free commander.
MG42 play is a key to defeat it. My usual build is Gren, MG42, Gren, Gren, Gren and then Sniper/ Mortar - into T2
22 Feb 2014, 11:42 AM
#58
Posts: 4928
Well, it's no brainer for Grens to always go LMG whenever possible. Exception being that the LMG does drop at a rare rate after death. In the end, the PPSH is doctrinal, just like the G43 (neither are droppable). Though it might be awesome if any weapon beyond the standard rifle had a small chance or dropping.
In the grand scheme of things, sure. But what I mean is, when you open with Grenadiers, you have to made decisions. Am I going to go rifle-grenade heavy, or should I wait for an LMG? What about after? Or should I save up for a Flame Half-Track? Later on you have to consider, should I use a Rifle-Grenade now? Spare for a Mine Field? Save for a Strafing Run?
As Soviets I don't find myself asking these questions, I mindlessly buy PPSh's on all squads and throw molotovs liberally, plant mines when I remember to, and I still sit on piles of munitions. It's part of the game design, Ostheer is inherently munitions heavy, and generally pays more for less. But I don't think it should be that way.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Feb 2014, 12:01 PM
#59
2 Posts: 101
In the grand scheme of things, sure. But what I mean is, when you open with Grenadiers, you have to made decisions. Am I going to go rifle-grenade heavy, or should I wait for an LMG? What about after? Or should I save up for a Flame Half-Track? Later on you have to consider, should I use a Rifle-Grenade now? Spare for a Mine Field? Save for a Strafing Run?
As Soviets I don't find myself asking these questions, I mindlessly buy PPSh's on all squads and throw molotovs liberally, plant mines when I remember to, and I still sit on piles of munitions. It's part of the game design, Ostheer is inherently munitions heavy, and generally pays more for less. But I don't think it should be that way.
It's not 'mindless' to get the ppsh upgrade, you lose an doctrine ability (like shocks or guards) to get a basic unit upgrade so it should be good FFS.
22 Feb 2014, 12:08 PM
#60
Posts: 157
snip
Sure, but those decisions are generally made early to mid game as Ost. PPSH show up during or after FHTs and PGs hit the field, maybe even closer to when T3 is being researched or built.
My experience is generally the complete opposite when MU's are concerned. Osts are MU heavy upfront and float more often during mid-late game (or used on Arty/Air strikes, which is seen more often than their Soviet counterparts) while Soviets drain their MUs more later to keep up with German's firepower superiority. Mining, buttoning, AT Grens, smokes, barrage, etc become so crucial for Soviets mid-late game, I often wish I had more MUs at hand and start to wonder "that FU cache I built should've been a MU cache."
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