Call to action - Let's Be Awesome Together

Inverse just 3 things:

1- Isn't this kind of grudge between casters what Noun is trying to avoid?
2- What's wrong with casters arranging tourneys? isn't this what SNF, TFN, AE and others does/did?
3- Being butthurt with the man after so long is just lame bro

It's not a grudge, it's just a response to someone who doesn't understand why Harlequin isn't some sort of revered god in the CoH community, and why he shouldn't be given a tribute on the biggest CoH show out there. And I never said running tournaments is bad; in fact, I'm pretty sure I specifically said it was great he ran a tournament. But, like most people who do that sort of thing, he ran it to benefit himself, not to benefit the community. Again, nothing wrong with that, but the man shouldn't be put on a pedestal for it.

Ultimately, I think Harlequin was good for the community. He was at times disrespectful (though likely not intentionally), and his casting was awful for anyone with a lick of understanding about the game, but there's no doubt he attracted an audience that might not have been otherwise interested in CoH. I just think the majority of the audience that he did attract moved on with him to the next game, instead of staying with CoH despite his departure. When you watch a Harlquin cast, he's the star of the show; the game is just there to give him subject material. Harlequin made his audience Harlequin fans, not CoH fans, so when Harlequin left CoH, so did a majority of his audience. That's why I don't think he's the type of caster Relic should look to support.

NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.

Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.

A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.

NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.

Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.

A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.

+1

+1

+2

Try reading through some of them.

James being a moderator is a thankless and difficult role. I've been there, done that and wouldn't do it again. So thanks for giving a shit and volunteering.

So please take my words in the a spirit of constructive criticism - you *are* a tad lock-happy and your +1 Hammer of Moderation seems to get wielded too quickly *on occasion*

+2

+3

NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.

Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.

A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.

+90000

+3

+4

+4

+7 (including my two kids who play)

+11

+74738#474746656573839392938374747474783837364^5657488474

NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.

Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.

A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.

This is pretty much exactly what I've been trying to say. Prefectly put A_E. And thank you for running the reddit tournament. It has been a blast.

+1000 hours I spent on this game.

It's not a grudge,

Are you certain about that? It was not how your post read.I did not bother to respond to your previous hymn of hate,bcs others did so more than adequately. (and I note the Reborn clan have been called out to the colours, to defend their chief, so I am not bothering to spend my time on their sniping either,at least at this stage)

it's just a response to someone who doesn't understand why Harlequin isn't some sort of revered god in the CoH community, and why he shouldn't be given a tribute on the biggest CoH show out there.

So innocuous in its Simple Simon line: you will find in the world of work, Inverse, that things do not always pan out squarely. By way of analogy: there are good car mechanics, who know their way around the engine of a car but cannot sell it to save their life, and there are good car salesmen, who have basic mechanical knowledge, but who make better sales figures than the mechanic ever could. You are a mechanic; Harlequin and Ami are salesmen. When I watch a cast, primarily I want to be entertained; I watch your casts to learn, but I prefer the entertainment. This is bcs people like Harlequin, Bridger and his co-casters , and yes, Ami, have that capacity. SNF was running when Harlequin casted, and when Bridger and Rogers returned. Bridger was big enough to want to cast with Harlequin. Ami, it seems, was not. Now you tell me who was self-interested.

I already referred to Harlequin broadcasting with the likes of Budwise. Was Budwise ever featured on SNF as a co-caster? I don't recall it.

And I never said running tournaments is bad; in fact, I'm pretty sure I specifically said it was great he ran a tournament.

Ho Ho Ho!

Come off it, bro. You damned it with faint praise. See your previous post.

But, like most people who do that sort of thing, he ran it to benefit himself, not to benefit the community. Again, nothing wrong with that, but the man shouldn't be put on a pedestal for it.

I think everyone who casts does it for their own benefit, which includes you. What I was talking about was who did/does it best.

Ultimately, I think Harlequin was good for the community. He was at times disrespectful (though likely not intentionally)

,

This reads like a gripe from a good ole boy ex-GR admin.....

an

d his casting was awful for anyone with a lick of understanding about the game,

Bollox. Read my analogy about the difference between a mechanic and a salesman,

but there's no doubt he attracted an audience that might not have been otherwise interested in CoH

.

How amazing that you can take your head from out under the bonnet and acknowledge this. It must have been hard

I just think the majority of the audience that he did attract moved on with him to the next game, instead of staying with CoH despite his departure.

You are wrong again. The CoHO audience undoubtedly registered with him on the DoW site in the hopes that he would continue with what was by then vCoH redux.....but sadly it was not often, ....and I have already referred to the good ole boys sniping...and indeed, surprise,surprise, some of them have reemerged here......( I don't include Sepha)

When you watch a Harlequin cast, he's the star of the show; the game is just there to give him subject material

.

That is (IMO) the same for any caster.

Harlequin made his audience Harlequin fans, not CoH fans, so when Harlequin left CoH, so did a majority of his audience. That's why I don't think he's the type of caster Relic should look to support.

Then they should not support you, SNF or any other successful caster. That's just Harry Bollox.

1. You say to give them time to learn from their mistakes - why didn't they learn from vCoH's mistakes? OF's mistakes? ToV's mistakes? CoHO's mistakes? In fact they didn't just not learn from them, they repeated them. I'm not as optimistic that this is something time alone will fix. The track record isn't there.

2. As I asked Ciez & co. to point out to me a few pages back, nothing fundamental about the game is changing. They're improving balance yes, Relic is actually quite good at that imo. But I remember DoW2's 1.4 "There Is Only War" patch where in the name of improving balance they gutted the core game. You have to fix the fundamental gameplay before balance becomes an issue.

Harlequin was a good caster.

* shrugs *

I like Inverse's stuff too, in a different way (I learnt my first Langres pin from Inverse).

We need both. Sorry to make like Switzerland and, yeah, Bloodnok has some good points. Maybe we need either (a) a truth and reconciliation commission or (b) death-match.

NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.

Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.

A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.

+1

Why even continue? This post sums it up. As much as I think Bloodnok is right, in the end continuing the discussion on the topic is not necessary in my opinion. It just focuses on detail, while abstractly it's what A_E said.

1. You say to give them time to learn from their mistakes - why didn't they learn from vCoH's mistakes? OF's mistakes? ToV's mistakes? CoHO's mistakes? In fact they didn't just not learn from them, they repeated them. I'm not as optimistic that this is something time alone will fix. The track record isn't there.

This is where I'll lay my +1

I hope A_E is right about the metagame revealing itself and that the new patch will show us not only balance, but a non-p2w stance on DLCs.

But more than that, I hope they never pull a stunt like the Ace/Industy again. To me it was like the reintroduction of Brits; totally core-gameplay breaking opponents. It's like playing Skyrim and then have the developers turn it into a turn-based rpg. That's not what I bought, nor wanted...

I hope.

NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.

Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.

A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.

Oh so this.
These are exactly same reasons why I look at all the naysayers as they were retards, well truth be told, they are or this is their first RTS game in life, because it hard to believe how stupid some complaints are.

1. You say to give them time to learn from their mistakes - why didn't they learn from vCoH's mistakes? OF's mistakes? ToV's mistakes? CoHO's mistakes? In fact they didn't just not learn from them, they repeated them. I'm not as optimistic that this is something time alone will fix. The track record isn't there.

2. As I asked Ciez & co. to point out to me a few pages back, nothing fundamental about the game is changing. They're improving balance yes, Relic is actually quite good at that imo. But I remember DoW2's 1.4 "There Is Only War" patch where in the name of improving balance they gutted the core game. You have to fix the fundamental gameplay before balance becomes an issue.

+1

When you have 7 years experience and learn absolutely zero from it - the excuse of 'well vcoh had the same problems early on too' just doesn't cut it, especially when your selling point is sequel to the greatest rts of all time.

The problem now is who's left that want to buy Coh2? People who would have already have and are leaving it, hence the declining numbers and repeated sales and free weekends etc. Coh1 veterans either Uninstaller or hope for improvement.

That leaves the new player, who sees a multitude of DLC.

It doesn't look good.