How can Relic consider the German upgraded half-track reinforce ability imbalanced but at the same time consider the Scout Car + Sniper combo perfectly okay?
There is no counter to a well micro'ed scout car sniper at the beginning of the game, especially so if the soviets have gone guards.
I know its an old issue, but its ridiculous this hasn't been addressed.
Sniper in Scout Car
28 Jan 2014, 00:47 AM
#1
Posts: 184
28 Jan 2014, 01:06 AM
#2
1 
Posts: 889 | Subs: 1
Scout Car + Sniper and guards is one of the most powerful strategies in the game on big maps. The only thing that stops me when I use this strategy is random mortar shots killing the sniper in the car, but not the car.
The upgunned scout car is extremely pathetic given it can easily die to small arms fire, let alone guards.
The upgunned scout car is extremely pathetic given it can easily die to small arms fire, let alone guards.
28 Jan 2014, 01:23 AM
#3
1 
Posts: 1006
since guards are 1cp it's very hard to counter, when they are up to 2cps it should help, we will see then.
28 Jan 2014, 04:04 AM
#4
Posts: 379
Well Relic didn't say they thought Sniper and Car was fine they just didn't mention it at all. That's not the same thing since they hardly mentioned anything about upcoming balance.
With that said, the I feel Sniper Teams should have a greatly reduced accuracy when firing from the car. Maybe like 30% of shots hit from stationary and less when moving, or something like that. Seems like that would fix the issue.
In 1v1 if they open up with a Tier 1 start and you see the M3A1 you can go 4 T1 units into T2 -> Upgunned car right away and that usually will deal with it before Guards come out.
With that said, the I feel Sniper Teams should have a greatly reduced accuracy when firing from the car. Maybe like 30% of shots hit from stationary and less when moving, or something like that. Seems like that would fix the issue.
In 1v1 if they open up with a Tier 1 start and you see the M3A1 you can go 4 T1 units into T2 -> Upgunned car right away and that usually will deal with it before Guards come out.
28 Jan 2014, 04:42 AM
#5
Posts: 230
G'day
I have found that this can be countered by making a sniper of your own, cloaking it, waiting for the sniper inside the scout car to fire at a gren squad and then ASAP firing with your own sniper, taking out a model, and recloaking before the opposing sniper can get a shot back
The scoutcar will probably charge you at this point, in which you want to get the gren squad ahead of your sniper, faust the scoutcar, and backpedal your sniper and try to wipe the sniper inside the scoutcar.
(it will not get a retreating evasiveness buff, or a cloak in the scout car, and will always get killed)
it's risky, but germans have the sniper disadvantage because t1 for soviets is a lot more niche, and you can win without it whereas 90% of german players build t1 which comes with the sniper unit
which means... in my opinion it's pretty balanced
I have found that this can be countered by making a sniper of your own, cloaking it, waiting for the sniper inside the scout car to fire at a gren squad and then ASAP firing with your own sniper, taking out a model, and recloaking before the opposing sniper can get a shot back
The scoutcar will probably charge you at this point, in which you want to get the gren squad ahead of your sniper, faust the scoutcar, and backpedal your sniper and try to wipe the sniper inside the scoutcar.
(it will not get a retreating evasiveness buff, or a cloak in the scout car, and will always get killed)
it's risky, but germans have the sniper disadvantage because t1 for soviets is a lot more niche, and you can win without it whereas 90% of german players build t1 which comes with the sniper unit
which means... in my opinion it's pretty balanced
28 Jan 2014, 17:31 PM
#6
Posts: 93
Well Relic didn't say they thought Sniper and Car was fine they just didn't mention it at all. That's not the same thing since they hardly mentioned anything about upcoming balance.
With that said, the I feel Sniper Teams should have a greatly reduced accuracy when firing from the car. Maybe like 30% of shots hit from stationary and less when moving, or something like that. Seems like that would fix the issue.
In 1v1 if they open up with a Tier 1 start and you see the M3A1 you can go 4 T1 units into T2 -> Upgunned car right away and that usually will deal with it before Guards come out.
That's along the lines with what I think should be done, but seems way more severe than necessary. might as well make the m3 ungarrisonable, because at 30% accuracy you are just wasting your time. Seems like 75% hit chance would be fine. That 1/4 miss chance would make it far less effective at whittling down units when they try to press on it.
28 Jan 2014, 17:41 PM
#7
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
G'day
I have found that this can be countered by making a sniper of your own, cloaking it, waiting for the sniper inside the scout car to fire at a gren squad and then ASAP firing with your own sniper, taking out a model, and recloaking before the opposing sniper can get a shot back
The scoutcar will probably charge you at this point, in which you want to get the gren squad ahead of your sniper, faust the scoutcar, and backpedal your sniper and try to wipe the sniper inside the scoutcar.
(it will not get a retreating evasiveness buff, or a cloak in the scout car, and will always get killed)
it's risky, but germans have the sniper disadvantage because t1 for soviets is a lot more niche, and you can win without it whereas 90% of german players build t1 which comes with the sniper unit
which means... in my opinion it's pretty balanced
Pretty sure the Ost sniper has a 50% chance to hit a Soviet model in a car. So this would work, literally, 50% of the time at best. In situations where I see this I simply back my car up slightly and use it to pick off the grens before charging in to kill the Ost sniper. Also I don't think you can order the Ost sniper to target units in cars, and since the camo glitch is still active I am not sure how you actually get him to fire as Soviet snipers at all. When you order him to fire on the car, he should, stupidly, shoot the scout car.
28 Jan 2014, 19:44 PM
#8
Posts: 222
Soviet snipers in general need to be looked at imo but yeah... using them in combination with a scout car is just adding insult to injury.
28 Jan 2014, 19:59 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Soviet snipers in general need to be looked at imo but yeah... using them in combination with a scout car is just adding insult to injury.
Its not like germans can't do the same thing if they choose to you know.
Moreover relic said multiple times that snipers balancing will not affect their survivability.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2014, 22:25 PM
#10
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Its not like germans can't do the same thing if they choose to you know.
Moreover relic said multiple times that snipers balancing will not affect their survivability.
Are you referring to a doctrinal use of an expensive, non-vetting, late arriving, gunless HT as the equivalent of the Soviet scout car?
Relic has said that about survivability, but has not, as far as I know, the possibility of balance based on some other constraint.
28 Jan 2014, 22:51 PM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Are you referring to a doctrinal use of an expensive, non-vetting, late arriving, gunless HT as the equivalent of the Soviet scout car?
Relic has said that about survivability, but has not, as far as I know, the possibility of balance based on some other constraint.
Yes, I'm talking about that mobile, extremely durable for such transport, arriving at ~4-5 minute gunless ht that can be packed up with infantry that have dps greater then soviet M3 with whatever you put inside.
Relic already balanced scout cars by making them explode if you look at them too hard.
Also, whats inside can die with the car if you've missed that.
How does the gun matter if the car is at max sniper range constantly? Its not like it will defend itself against anything stronger then osttruppen anyway.
There is also nothing wrong with 250 being doctrinal.
As far as I'm aware the river of tears on this topic is based not only on sniper and M3 but also on guards, which are doctrinal as well.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2014, 22:52 PM
#12
Posts: 4928
A simple fix could be to just make the Sniper lose 90% of its accuracy from inside Scout Cars.
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28 Jan 2014, 22:57 PM
#13
Posts: 3293
A simple fix could be to just make the Sniper lose 90% of its accuracy from inside Scout Cars.
that would then further limit what you can do with a half track.
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28 Jan 2014, 23:16 PM
#14
Posts: 82
Most imba build in this game. Add a little micro and my wehrmacht ass get beaten. No counters at all. Hope Relic will adress this soon or I may go to my garden in ragemode and destroy something with my chainsaw.
28 Jan 2014, 23:33 PM
#15
Posts: 337
Yes, I'm talking about that mobile, extremely durable for such transport, arriving at ~4-5 minute gunless ht that can be packed up with infantry that have dps greater then soviet M3 with whatever you put inside.
Relic already balanced scout cars by making them explode if you look at them too hard.
Also, whats inside can die with the car if you've missed that.
How does the gun matter if the car is at max sniper range constantly? Its not like it will defend itself against anything stronger then osttruppen anyway.
There is also nothing wrong with 250 being doctrinal.
As far as I'm aware the river of tears on this topic is based not only on sniper and M3 but also on guards, which are doctrinal as well.
Nobody cares about Guards in M3s. Only snipers in M3s.
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28 Jan 2014, 23:35 PM
#16
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Nobody cares about Guards in M3s. Only snipers in M3s.
Do you even play the game?
Guards screen M3 from ACs.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2014, 23:36 PM
#17
Posts: 230
on second thought, this abusive bullshite is up there with attack move maxim spam on langres south as soviet
29 Jan 2014, 00:31 AM
#18
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Yes, I'm talking about that mobile, extremely durable for such transport, arriving at ~4-5 minute gunless ht that can be packed up with infantry that have dps greater then soviet M3 with whatever you put inside.
Relic already balanced scout cars by making them explode if you look at them too hard.
Also, whats inside can die with the car if you've missed that.
How does the gun matter if the car is at max sniper range constantly? Its not like it will defend itself against anything stronger then osttruppen anyway.
There is also nothing wrong with 250 being doctrinal.
As far as I'm aware the river of tears on this topic is based not only on sniper and M3 but also on guards, which are doctrinal as well.
So, I should buy DLC to balance a unit or use the terrible mechanized assault doctrine?
And doctrinal HT is one of the worst units in the game for cost right now. I never said anything about guards.
Also the scout car does a huge amount of damage, and if you get just within range with it you can really start to bleed Ost mp fast. It can also chase down and kill squads easily. You can also easily avoid the 50% loss of squad members if you hit d, ANYTIME before it goes out of control. I never lose squad members to out of control scout cars, and I use them every single game I play Soviet. They are extremely good. I am not complaining, I use the thing, I am warning Relic. Don't accuse everyone, whose opinions you don't like, of being a whiner. It makes no sense, it is not pertinent to the discussion, and it is petty.
Problem right now is as stated, there are no counters to this strat.
29 Jan 2014, 02:17 AM
#19
7 Posts: 1664
Do you even play the game?
Guards screen M3 from ACs.
Oh you silly naive boy I do hope you're trolling. look six inches to the right on your screen to see he is in top ten with both factions. We trust his evaluations.
29 Jan 2014, 02:35 AM
#20
Posts: 401
Guards in M5s are probably more of a threat. Guards in M3s do force away ACs, and sometimes kill, but the M3 doesn't have much health and with all the negatives for units in a dying transport means you don't want to go toe to toe with a direct counter weapon.
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