Thread: Ram 22 Apr 2014, 20:16 PM
The same people that think ramming is okay are the same ones complaining about vet 1 blitzkrieg. If Blitz is going to get nerfed then I suggest similar nerfs to the ram ability, and make its effectiveness dependent on how the target was rammed.
Frontal rams should have a brief shock effect and have a 15% chance of disabling the main gun.
Side rams should have a brief shock effect, a 25% chance of disabling the main gun and 50% chance of crippling the engine.
Rear rams should have an extended shock effect, along with a 50% chance of disabling the main gun and 70% chance of damaging the engine.
The end result? No more insta-win ram ability and the soviet players are rewarded for flanking their targets.
That still leaves a lot of RNG. I think the range of rng should only be in either the damage ram causes, or in the length of stun, and that should not have extremes of result. If you make a distinction between rear and forward ramming, side rams will probably still fall into the rng category(though maybe acceptably) due to the chance of the attack being calculated as frontal or rear, or can they have 3 different categories?
I think a cleaner solution might be to make ram work 100 percent of the time, disabling gun and tread, but only available once a t34 has gone below 50 percent health(maybe below 75 percent would be more reasonable) That makes it much easier for an Ostheer player to control for.
Or else make it so that ostheer tanks can only take temporary stun to gun and mobility, unless they are rammed after they have dipped below 75 percent health. Or do both and make this qualifier only for the heavies. |
There was a good thread here before (cant find it now) on how to make it useful by changing the soviets tech-system to a more coh-PE-like.
That does seem like the simplest solution. Reduce t3 and t4 back to 90 fuel each, and in both buildings have a 50 fuel building upgrade that unlocks the t34, and a 50 fuel upgrade that unlocks the cat and the su85 together.
It would be cool if a proper fuel cost could be found that made it viable to build t3, not upgrade it, and then build t4, but it would be hard to justify making the fuel investment less than it was pre-patch for t70s or su76s.
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mostly play 1v1 so I care about that the most,
but is there any way that balancing could be done so that different tweaks took effect for different # of players? Certain units or abilities that clearly have disproportionate values in 2v2 or 3v3 could be toned down, or else prices adjusted, but only in those game modes,
or is something like that absolutely impossible given the structure of the coding?
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Read Shazz for more information, but if you think buying vet in COH2 is anything like vet in COH1 I recommend you play COH1 again.
I will tell you a vet 3 mortar at ~2 min mark is a fundamental breaking of the game.
well there was a reason they called vetted grens terminators. Those bastards just would not die, and wehr veterancy had the added bonus not seen in coh2 of giving the bought vet to every unit that will ever be built past that point, as well as all units already built, and of course that included infantry that spawned from bunkers. vetted pios were definitely a thing for a while on their own because of how powerful it was.
That said, I didn't argue that the current state of this doctrine was balanced, just that I like the design of it. The cost for value could be adjusted if needed. |
Commander might be overpowered, not sure. never use it personally but enjoy playing against it. I don't see how this commander is poorly designed or goes against the fundamental essence of COH, especially since its taking a card from VCOH in terms of bought vet, which didn't seem to sully that game's position as the COH gold standard.
I think the idea here is good, is doctrine specific, and is a solid trade-off. Not sure why the ability shouldn't be available for vehicles. If its too good when used on vehicles, its price should be upped. |
Soviet T3 and T4 are now absolutely overpriced. 140 fuel for one of These buildings.It makes 280 fuel now if you wanna build both of them.
Soviet T3 & T4 are now +100 fuel(2 * 50) more expensive then before.
German battle phases are now only +50 fuel(1* 20, 1* 20 and 1*10) more expensive then before.
Seems crazy to me.
Does seem like the cost is prohibitive for ever having both buildings built in a game. Better solution might have been a supply depot style building for 50 fuel as a requirement for t3 or t4, thus staying away from an ostheer style phase upgrade, but only impacting on t3 and t4 for 50 fuel, rather than 100.
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Like some of the ideas,
like MORE GLOBAL UPGRADES
Grens are hardly an underused unit though. they are very effective throughout the whole game, so I'm not sure why there should be an upgrade that makes them even more desirable. I'd rather pgrens get some sort of fuel upgrade. A fifth pgren might even be worth a 60 fuel investment(though im not sure about this...god they are expensive to reinforce), because it might actually make staying in t2 to counter vehicles slightly more viable.
Generally though, while I like the idea of fuel upgrades, and making molotovs less of a no-brainer, raising the fuel costs on them and/or the at nades seems like a bad idea. Neither faction can afford to delay their vehicle presence for that long, and since you can only reduce your opponent's fuel intake, not stop it unless you entirely take all of his territory, investing in an infantry upgrade that significantly slows your tech down is almost certain to end in you getting murdered when tanks pop.
but that goes to your point about restructuring resource intake, which i'm all for. If you took fuel and munis away from standard points(or at least reduced the inflow) and increased what you get from official fuel or muni points, that would probably make infantry fuel investments that actually slow your teching substantially, viable.
I saw the capping idea elsewhere before(not sure if it was you then). I like that idea. Seems like its all win. Maybe if you were directly capping, an opponent getting in the circle with you only slows your capping down. you are already vulnerable to him shooting at you while you are combat ineffective.
would definitely welcome a penal battalion boost and a pgren boost.
Ideas that reduce rng sound good to me. Some random losses(or survivals) are just too significant to even out in the course of a game.
Intrigued by vehicles having different penetration at different ranges - seems like a major balance changer, and not entirely sure of what the benefits to tactics would be...doesn't range already increase likelihood of hitting a target? and as was stated, hitting side armor hits both front and rear armor intermittently, so there is benefit to flanking(again, the results are just a little random)
I also don't like the faust at-nade mechanic- though fussing with it is likely to require a lot of balancing also. Maybe a tank shouldn't be susceptible to engine damage unless it has been damaged to 80% or even 90% health, and then only minor engine damage, as a guarantee. Then fausts and at-nades should probably get better penetration-I'd like to say more damage but that's not a good thing against light vehicles). Heavy engine damage shouldn't be possible unless a tank is below 40% health. To make it so that fausts and at-nades aren't totally wasted on a hit, they could cause temporary stun damage. This would prevent 1 solitary unit from ruining a tanks day, and still allow for well organized guerrilla tactics on tanks to pay off by slowing your opponent's momentum.
If you can get a second faust or at nade in because of this opening, then you can actually hobble a tank...or maybe a faust and at-nade shouldn't do engine damage unless a tank has taken 75% damage, or it is temporarily stunned. |
I'd just like pgrens to shine a little more than they do. Grens and lmgs or g43s may be good the whole game, but pgrens being so expensive to reinforce, have a rougher time of it, even by mid-game. I don't think there's a problem with how they interact with shock troops, but against upgraded cons, their value is questionable.
so, given that we got that massive upfront manpower boost a couple patches ago, I would still advocate that rather than changing unit stats, cons and grens just get increased in cost by 20 manpower a piece. It will slightly slow their build time, make them slightly more expensive than more niche units, and make some other openings slightly more practical---including(though its probably not enough to make this viable) the good old fashioned ostheer t2 start(sans assault grens). |
PPSH is driving me crazy at my craptastic level of play, even if it isn't the problem. Right now pgrens seem like a pretty bad investment.
If they just raised the price on cons And grens by 20 to 30 manpower, I think the game would be better for it. It would be nice if you could do a t2 start to pgrens, or a strong t1 or t2 start with Russia.
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-s mines agreed: pricing is right now, but either signs should go, or the first t70 shouldn't be able to entirely nullify your investment. Maybe there should be a 5 percent chance of engine damage, just so that mine-clearing with a tank isn't a no-brainer.
-still miss the wire that was in beta for the russians- it was interesting.
-Still no global fuel upgrades! these are still needed for core strategy diversity. Upgrades specific to maps incorporating cold-tech would also add more strategic aspect to that mechanic.
-current resource mechanics are problematic regarding the implementation of global upgrades...teching to tanks needs to be slowed, or strategic points need to give less or no fuel(while designated fuel points and fuel caches give more fuel)
-Pathing is still wonky - and tends to be just maddening when trying to keep your m3's or 222's from taking some horribly suicidal(and unexpected) route at a key moment. I don't seem to have the same problems with t70s, or t34s...etc. though they might have the same issues.
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