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I think that's reasonable and might be right,
but even if this change balances the ability, I think there's a problem with it really making pgrens cost-ineffective. I've been playing games where I get pgrens fast, even get lucky as crap and fully wipe 3 con squads in the first 4 to 6 minutes, only to have spelled my own doom by investing in 2 to 3 pgrens...because inspite of that seemingly monumental early game, the second wave of cons, now upgraded, just annihilate me in the manpower war.
Granted, take guards out of a doctrine with ppsh, and then guards don't help your opponent deal with fht---so maybe that's all that is needed to keep pgrens viable, hmmm |
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to you I guess. Hell, I'm not being partisan about this. There is almost never a reason not to get molotovs early. I'd rather feel like I were making a choice myself whether to go for 5 fast cons for the sake of proliferation, or 3 cons with molotovs, followed up by a 4th straggler for the early engagement impact.
right now, why not just get 4 or 5 cons with molotovs in the first few minutes. I'm not even making a suggestion regarding balance. If this affects balance unfavorably, then Russians should be compensated another way. Its just kind of pointless to be an "option" as it is.
The other change I would advocate just as strongly though, would be to raise the cost of both cons and grens by 20 manpower, given that we have so much more resources in the early game to play with. This would improve ostheer t2 start viability, as well as Russian t1 or t2 viability. |
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I like most of the changes, but the ppsh seems really strong now. I may just be toying with an impossible build in this meta, but pgrens don't seem to have much of a window in it currently. At some point they die so fast that even if you are wiping squads, you are losing more manpower than your opponent. I think a price increase to 50 muni for the upgrade would be warranted - though I could be wrong.
And the radio intercept + ppsh doctrine seems like a problem for that combination.
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I was hoping that molotovs would get a manpower increase to 250 or more. It's still a no-brainer upgrade and that should be examined.
Heard they didn't fix the ostheer sniper(or is it a bug that affects both snipers?), and that's a real bummer. hopefully that fix comes soon.
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I think it really depends on how strong the doctrine is overall as to whether this ability should be toned down or not. In NKVD, all the other abilities were so underwhelming, or just too costly, that even as amazing as the ability is, it wasn't enough for anybody to really use the doctrine.
A tell-all ability with PPSH though seems like a really big deal. In both other doctrines that have radio intercept, the implicit disadvantage out the gate for this global knowledge is that you don't get shocks, ppsh's, or guards to deal with the things you know are coming, and have to use the extra time to prepare by building the appropriate building and the appropriate units from your stock force.
If radio intercept is going to stay in this doctrine, it should absolutely be toned down, only yielding information piece-meal, and then maybe, mercifully, something could be done about the ridiculously muni-heavy, small impact abilities of NKVD doctrine as a whole(by shifting something out in favor of a different ability perhaps-like getting rid of rapid conscription in a doctrine that has no perks for its cons). |
Company of Heroes is indeed a simple game strategically, yet it's still more complex than CoH2. If you look at it from a pure numbers perspective, there are the same number of base units available in both games (4 per tier, there's actually one more in CoH2 I believe because of Conscripts in T0 :/
I agree with most of your points- but America only had 11 base units(oops, 12), and Russia has 14.
Conversely, I think wehrmacht had 16(not including goliaths if you want to count those as well), versus the ostheer 14, as well as 2 separate upgrades for the half-track.
Of Course America had a whole lot more global upgrades, but Wehrmacht did have about 12 different fuel upgrades themselves, they were just all in vet. I won't miss that mechanic, but I will miss the different ways that wehr could focus its tech.
There do seem to be more viable openings in this game than in coh1 though, partly having to do with different opening tiers for Russia, but of course, some of this comes from the diversity of commanders, and these openings tend to lock in a player's trajectory and make him fairly predictable.
One of the reasons there are less options though, is because of the way resources work. In coh1, you could go all in with tier 1 and maybe tier 2, because theoretically, if you could keep your opponent off his fuel, you weren't going to be seeing any medium vehicles. In this game, you might stall your teching for a minute if you have kept both fuels, but any longer than that and you could lose a game because your opponent still pulled out a t34(obviously that's with the exception of maps where ostheer can entirely starve the opponent of resources in full).
I definitely think this should be reworked some, putting more fuel and munis into the actual fuel and muni points, and less into the regular points, or just reinstate the old resource system, popcap, manpower, and all.
And yeah, where are the global upgrades? I really hope Duffy abandons his stance on these - though I understand that the implementation will probably be a shake-up of doctrinal abilities.
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If they're inside an M3 they have no control over what their sniper targets, and they cannot hold fire, which makes it *VERY* easy to countersnipe them. Just run any squad into range of their sniper in the M3, it shoots, you shoot with your sniper. Ez pz. The only problem is that currently snipers in M3s are bugged and you can *NEVER* kill the second member while it is in the M3 haha.
oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh, wow, only played against it, so it never occurred to me that the Russian player can't target for his sniper. That sounds like quite a nice mitigating detail in itself, and I can see then, how an ostheer sniper might be a viable counter. Cool!
I was thinking that the accuracy of a sniper in a vehicle should be at something like 75%, but that probably isn't necessary after all. Probably all that needs to happen is for guards to move back to 2 cps, and I'd be surprised if that isn't already a given change come next patch. |
Honestly, this could all be solved by making DLC commanders unlockable in gameplay as well as purchasable. Give players who can't wait a means to pay for commanders right away, and give players who would never buy DLC in the first place an opportunity to earn everything in the game that affects the actual gameplay.
Thinking about that actually got me excited about what could happen if Relic changed their DLC system to something like that.
The other advantage to Relic allowing players to grind for dlc is that, if the grind were tied to multiplayer, it would deepen the player base that was regularly on. Seems like a win/win. Plus by the nature of the milestones, it would probably promote testing out more strategies and honing skills with a variety of units, making the automatch community stronger overall. |
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Penals are my favorite unit in the game. I can't comment on their pricing with any authority and certainly wouldn't cry if they were reduced in price, but they have some really interesting properties that allow them to turn battles.
*They are decent long or short range(with flamer).
*they have satchel charges- which are just awesome and turn tides all the time, including catching a jammed up fht, forcing mass retreats, killing garrisoned mgs, at guns, blowing chunks out of engine damaged tanks, etc.
*they reinforce from cons without loss of combat effectiveness(I have been told this and it seems to be true). This is great early game for maintaining a strong offensive output on the field during the first couple skirmishes.
*they get oorah at vet 2, and that coupled with satchels definitely keeps them viable into the late game.
I think 340 would be the ideal cost, but people seem to be pushing for about 320, which might not be too cheap, but seems like Christmas to me.
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If assualt grens are too narrow in their window of viability, maybe that should be addressed in vet, namely vet 3. I don't think it would be a horrible thing if a vet 3 squad could faust, or had better armor, etc. All I know is that I never see them anymore, so something is probably not right. Did anybody use them in SNF?
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Well Relic didn't say they thought Sniper and Car was fine they just didn't mention it at all. That's not the same thing since they hardly mentioned anything about upcoming balance.
With that said, the I feel Sniper Teams should have a greatly reduced accuracy when firing from the car. Maybe like 30% of shots hit from stationary and less when moving, or something like that. Seems like that would fix the issue.
In 1v1 if they open up with a Tier 1 start and you see the M3A1 you can go 4 T1 units into T2 -> Upgunned car right away and that usually will deal with it before Guards come out.
That's along the lines with what I think should be done, but seems way more severe than necessary. might as well make the m3 ungarrisonable, because at 30% accuracy you are just wasting your time. Seems like 75% hit chance would be fine. That 1/4 miss chance would make it far less effective at whittling down units when they try to press on it. |
I make 1 sniper for 1 shock. 2 Snipers for 2 Shocks. Bleed them dry. 1 Sniper costs less than 1 shock and owns them.
Once you hit vet1, hilarity ensues (pending RNG gods). I have a replay where my sniper kills 1 shock model with the first hit, then first an incendiary round that kills 4 more models. The lone shock model retreats, only to be gunned down by rambo sniper.
That sounds about right. I love the incendiary round, but it has an rng range of anywhere from doing seemingly no extra damage(and no obvious stun) to wiping 4 men of a shock squad. If all that has to do with is unit bunching(I don't think that's all of it but I'm not sure) then that at least is somewhat predictable, but still not easy for your opponent to account for. shocks seem way too damn expensive for that kind of kill power to happen...ever, but something more modest and more consistent would be nice.
I'd still prefer they revert shocks and guards to two points(or the equivalent of the 1 point they used to be), though I admit the more I play like this, the less I'm positive that its necessary in terms of balance. It does feel off to me though. A shock troop can enter the game after a minor skirmish goes down. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure I've run into shocks even before the very first actual engagement has occurred. The timing is basically the difference of an additional conscript or penal squad that would otherwise have to be on the field so that the russian player can maintain enough field presence before shocks or guards unlock.
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