Cruzz's thread of crappy game changes

Copycat thread.

cp ability cost changes:

Shocks back to 2cp
Guards back to 2cp
KV1 up to 8cp
T34/85 up to 9cp
IS2 up to 10cp
Tiger up to 10cp

cp ability stat changes:

Ambush Camoflage: for weapon teams, only gunner has to be in cover to activate (because it's effectively impossible right now to get an hmg into camo). For infantry teams, one model can be out of cover (because sometimes stuff just doesn't want to move to cover) for the ability to activate.

StuG E : Reload time decreased by 1s (this unit is fairly non-lethal even though it's very easily killed).

IL-2 Strafe: Attack radius shown on minimap for both sides and radius decreased by 33%. Give a large accuracy penalty against retreating units. (Because it's really hard to judge where the plane can attack)

German suppression strafe: radius of pin effect reduced by 33%, it shouldn't just autopin everything in the area every time it passes. Attack radius shown on map for both players. (Because it's really hard to judge where the plane can attack)

German anti-tank strafe: Attack radius shown on map for both sides. (Because it's really hard to judge where the plane can attack)

PPSH upgrade: cost increase to 40 muni (to make its price more accurately reflect its performance)

Partisans (both types): require line of sight to the building to spawn. (You shouldn't just be able to spawn them anywhere on the map at will)

KV8: Reduce damage done by the flamer by 15%. Increase unit manpower cost to 400mp. (KV8 overperforms against all infantry and buildings right now.)

Vehicle Detection: reduce cost to 30 munitions (It's one of the worst abilities in the game, it should atleast be cheap.)

ISU-152: Reduce fuel price by 30, increase penetration by 20. (ISU152 is the only soviet vehicle that hasn't been changed since beta. Leaving it a pretty gimp one compared to the rest.)

Reduce LMG gren halftrack callin cost to 480MP/55f. (LMG gren squad isn't worth as much as a PG squad, ability should be slightly cheaper than mechanized one)

Pak43: increase gun health by 33% to make it a bit more likely to survive to be recrewed. (It barely has more health than a standard pak40.)

Irregulars: Reduce price to 220MP. Allow to work with rapid conscription. (Because it's weird they don't, and they're overpriced)

Trench: double trench health (they get destroyed in seconds by tank fire, the trench should be able to withstand more damage than infantry in the open).

Tiger Ace: Remove both damage received and damage dealt bonus, give 33% faster reload and 33% less scatter than normal Tiger. Reduce resource lockdown to 5 minutes. (Current version is just stupid)

Troop Training: Make ability passive that increases exp received on units by 25%. If this is absolutely impossible then increase manpower cost per use by 30 to make the veterancy ability to limit all unit building more, and disable use on allied units in team games. (Abusive in team games and too beneficial for infantry only play in 1vs1)

Propaganda: increase radius by 20%, make it guarantee suppress on enemy units in radius in addition to current effects. (Simply a bad ability right now)

IS2: Reduce maingun aoe radius by 20%, decrease reload time by 0.5s to compensate. (Too much oneshot potential right now)


Commander tree changes:

German infantry doctrine: Replace osttruppen with G43 upgrade. (Because this doctrine needs a good ability badly. Also will be unique in having officer+g43s then)

Defensive doctrine (both factions): Change the commander ability to "doubled health on tank traps and halved build time on all defensive structures", add tank traps to the normal build options of pioneers and combat engineers. (Because it's silly everyone can't build them)

NKVD Rifle: replace rapid conscription with a special version that gives a maximum of 2 penal battalions while otherwise having same mechanics as Rapid Conscription. (Because rapid conscription otherwise doesn't really fit in this doctrine and it works with the NKVD theme)


Base unit changes:

Add sandbags to both combat engineers and german pioneers. (Germans need some kind of buildable cover as well. Stupid that engineers can't build them when conscripts can)

Add demolition charges to german pioneers with a 100mp/20f research. (Because this shouldn't be a faction limited option, but giving them for free might cause issues so a small cost)

Faust/ATnade: remove heavy engine crit chance (because it's RNG at its worst)

German s-mine: Remove warning signs. Decrease build time by 25%. Increase penetration to 15 to give a damage risk to clearing them with lighter vehicles. (Take too long to build, too easy to clear with vehicles)

T34 Ram: rather than random crit chances, when ram penetrates always give target engine damaged on frontal armor ram, immobilized on rear armor ram. (Slightly lessen the RNG aspect of ram and encourage attempts on rear ram)

Molotov: remove crit chance on models that are above 50% health. Increase damage done by impact+damage over time effect by 50%. (To try reduce situations where a full health squad gets hit by a molotov and 3 guys instantly go up in flames. Might need an even bigger damage bonus to compensate but we'll see)

Give M5 and Ostwind a new command to switch to AA mode, making them only target Air while getting 10 increased range. (because we need more reliable AA)

Reduce german T4 building cost to 120mp/40f to make T4 slightly more viable in 1vs1. (because teching to T4 is a quick way to lose a game quite often)

StuG G: increase frontal armor by 40. (StuGs have little health and mobility, they should atleast be able to take some shots from the front)

M3: Units inside are vulnerable to sniping similar to vcoh PE halftracks. (because they completely remove the chance to countersnipe)


Veterancy changes:

Overdrive: add a 15 munition cost (it's free right now...shouldn't be)

Soviet Sniper Sprint: increase munition cost by 20 (way too cheap right now for how powerful it is on a sniper)

Blitzkrieg tactics: decrease duration by 5s. Stop the buff if engine damaged during it. (Ability too powerful right now, having it get cut by engine damage gives a penalty for overextending with it)

Counter-barrage: increase bonuses offered by ability (lack of control not compensated by bonuses currently)

Precision Strike: increase cooldown by 20 secs, increase munition cost by 10. (way too spammable right now, even though it's the only thing that makes the soviet mortars worth it)

M5: give 40% AA bonus like on ostwind at vet2 (because we want more reliable AA).

Penal Battalion: increase vet2 and vet3 bonuses by a fair bit to let them remain competitive after vetted axis infantry and/or weapon upgrades start hitting the field (the "counter" to a purely anti-inf speciality squad is an LMG gren squad currently)

Pak40/43 stun round: fix bug where the cost of stun rounds is not refunded even though the unit doesn't even try to fire them.



Base gameplay mechanics changes:

Units can't go out of control with a destroyed engine (to stop those annoying situations with an out of control IS2 slaughtering everything for several minutes)

Remove "always survive if receiving crit" mechanic on vehicles. Damage should not be reduced at all when receiving a crit. (It was a stupid mechanic in vcoh and it still is a stupid mechanic here)

Allow weapon teams to fire even if the squad is spread out due to models being stuck in trees or wherever. (They're unresponsive enough without having to wait for all the groupies to join up hunkering behind the gun, makes atgun camo a bit better)

Increase distance models try to keep from each other in infantry squads slightly to reduce oneshotting from mines and aoe effects (Because it's stupid to lose full health squads to mines on open fields, even if it'll still happen in chokepoints)

Allow base buildings to be deleted after completion. (Stupid that you can't)

Increase minesweeping priority. (Pioneers with sweepers seem to love just sitting around mines rather than actually removing them)

Stop units from autoseeking cover in the direction where they last moved from during the past 10 seconds (to try stop units from diving straight back into molotovs, satchels, mg arcs and such).

Assault gun movement logic: triple the distance required before the assault gun tries to turn when given a move order behind them. (they derp way too much right now because they will try to turn every fucking time)


Bug fixes

Shreks should not automatically reload when squad gets suppressed. Probably affects other weapons as well but it's most prominent with them.

you're not trying to make the game like vcoh
downvoted, and reported for terrorism, enjoy the SWAT team raiding your house + perm forum ban

After reading the "nerf partisans" line I'm 100% sure this is another useless troll thread.

I like a lot of this suggestions, especially for ET-doctrine

After reading the "nerf partisans" line I'm 100% sure this is another useless troll thread.

It's a stupid mechanic which forces the axis player to just do boring grenspam and has to be removed before thinking about improving their overall combat performance. I don't have the commander so I didn't bother making judgment calls as to how they should be changed after the spawn mechanic has been made more reasonable.

I know partisans quickly become shit after the initial high impact because they have no durability and can only decap. But if you were to buff them while keeping the current spawn mechanic, maps like Semois with a lot of buildings would become impossible to play against them.

And why you assume they will be buffed?
In right conditions they can die to MG42 crew(not gun) and evebn 251 MGs deals considerable damage to them.

They are most squishy unit in game, they can be wiped by a single PaK shell not hitting directly(happened to me more then few times).

They don't scale at all and after unitial use serve no further purpose then to feed german exp.

Spawn mechanic is the only thing they have for them for extremely squishy unit that you have no control over its weapons and LMG/SVT partisans are completely useless compared to ppsh ones.

Solid suggestions really. Thumbs up.

Copycat thread.
Irregulars: Reduce price to 260MP. Allow to work with rapid conscription. (Because it's weird they don't, and they're overpriced)

That`s a very loose usage of the term "reduce" considering they now cost 250MP MVGame

Most of the changes look reasonable though.

That`s a very loose usage of the term "reduce" considering they now cost 250MP MVGame

Most of the changes look reasonable though.

...I really thought they were 290MP, that was what they cost when I last tried using them. But 220MP then, shrug.

And why you assume they will be buffed?

Spawn mechanic is the only thing they have for them for extremely squishy unit that you have no control over its weapons and LMG/SVT partisans are completely useless compared to ppsh ones

I'm not assuming they will be buffed, but what I'm saying is in my opinion they can't be buffed with the current spawn mechanic. I don't think they're OP in their current form because they are indeed pretty bad after the huge dps advantage they have at the start wanes off and all their weaknesses really start to show, but they just make the game boring on many maps because there's no point in building any weapon teams or snipers for the german side with the constant threat of a flank from a freshly spawned partisan.

As for how to buff them, I guess the starting point is to spawn them without special weapons and give them a 0 munition upgrade option for any of the current layouts. Not really sure what to do with them apart from that, giving them full capping ability (even if requiring the health upgrade) is too much because they can also lay mines, upping their base durability brings huge problems early on with spamming them against non-upped grens especially as T2 vehicles are useless against that doctrine. I guess you could redo their vet bonuses to be higher, but you also need to slow down their vetting speed because they get vet fast as hell right now thanks to the super low cost and high dps on them.

+1 to this thread Cruzz. Well done!

Propaganda should instantly pin, not suppress imo.
PPsh for 40 munitions for only 2 is a bit too expensive.
Otherwise good list

Propaganda should instantly pin, not suppress imo.
PPsh for 40 munitions for only 2 is a bit too expensive.

It has a chance to instantly pin already, the suggestion is for it automatically suppressing everything in radius when it starts, and keeping the chances for pin and forced retreat. Forced pin is another possibility if you want to make the ability even more powerful, but I'd first see how it plays with the forced suppress for the duration.

PPSH are better than g43s or LMGs at short range, which is by far the most important range in this game because of mechanics (cover ignored at short range, very low dps for all small arms except g43 at long range). If the basic rifles and/or LMG got a buff to long range accuracy I'd agree 40 muni would be too much for a weapon that throws away long range damage potential, but right now I wouldn't call it expensive.

Overall i like these changes very much. It addresses a wide range of the most notable annoyances in the game.

Some are maybe to drastic (quadruple ppsh cost - don't forget they are doctrinal and (since the latest patch) considerable worse than g43 for example) or to sophisticated from a developers point of view (new AA mode/ability, some game mechanics) to implement.

List is in general good.

I still don't think there is a good way to save ram. I do agree consistancy with crits is a must right now though.

I also think Ost means need an overall cost reduction (both standard types) even if that means they receive some nerfs. Especially S-mines, one square, please. Also Tellars are not terribly different from Reigels so if it were possible would be nice to separate these mines.

Solid suggestions.

... I really didn't expect that.
Well done!

Increase distance models try to keep from each other in infantry squads slightly to reduce oneshotting from mines and aoe effects (Because it's stupid to lose full health squads to mines on open fields, even if it'll still happen in chokepoints)

.. or they could just fix the mines (soviet and teller mine).
After all the current unit wiping potential is due to a hotfix dating back to beta.
(Mines would not reliably damage/crit tanks - this resulted in a mine buff that makes infantry squad wipes far more likely).

Overall i like these changes very much. It addresses a wide range of the most notable annoyances in the game.

Some are maybe to drastic (quadruple ppsh cost - don't forget they are doctrinal and (since the latest patch) considerable worse than g43 for example) or to sophisticated from a developers point of view (new AA mode/ability, some game mechanics) to implement.

+1 I share your opinion but overall good suggestions Cruzz!

Fantastic changes, most of them.

One thing to note though, the new PPSH isn't the same as the pre-patch ppsh. The new PPSH is much much weaker, and so the cost now is fine.

Some serious issues was pointed out here, i hope they will be heard and consideret.

Fantastic changes, most of them.

One thing to note though, the new PPSH isn't the same as the pre-patch ppsh. The new PPSH is much much weaker, and so the cost now is fine.

Seems a fair few think 40 is too high. I on the other hand think that 30 is the absolute minimum cost for these things that makes sense. They do double conscript short range dps (and more like quadruple moving short range dps) while not really affecting long/mid range dps at all (because there never was that much to begin with). Having them at 10/20 munitions is effectively the same as free, upgrading them isn't a choice at all once you've picked the doctrine, you'll just grab them on every single squad as soon as possible. Yet as a similar doctrinal weapon the 60 muni G43 is very much a choice on each squad.

Apart from the lack of choice when the price is so low, there's also the question of whether you want to encourage conscript spam tactics. Placing the price of the ppsh low lets conscript counter anything a german player can throw at them early game reasonably effectively, even the things (PGs, MGs) that are supposedly some form of counters to conscripts. Germans can't respond in kind because their upgrades are a lot pricier for performance, so you can often grab a map advantage just by spamming conscripts no matter what your opponent is doing