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What is up with the pzkpfw V Panther ?

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22 Jan 2014, 02:13 AM
#41
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 02:07 AMlink0
Panther is great in team games, but terrible in 1v1. Or rather, T4 is terrible in 1v1.

I think the cost of teching to T4 should come down. The units in T4 may then be increased in price slightly to compensate.


How would that fix it? That makes it more expensive in the long run. And by long run I mean if you intend to build more than one unit from it.
22 Jan 2014, 02:42 AM
#42
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4



How would that fix it? That makes it more expensive in the long run. And by long run I mean if you intend to build more than one unit from it.


Depending on the price changes, the delay before you could get your first T4 tank, while skipping T3 would be lower - which would make it a lot more viable. At least I think that is what link0 was getting at.

As it stands, if you want to totally skip T3 you have to hope they're going T4 as well or that they're wanting to rely on call-in tanks. Trying to fight off well microed T-70s/T34s while saving for a Panther isn't really a winning battle, and getting T3 + T4 is a *huge* resource investment so in most 1v1s you have to play T3. Sure if you're winning by a large margin you could go for T4... or you could just get a ton of P4s and go roll his base.
22 Jan 2014, 02:45 AM
#43
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

With teching, it costs around the same amount of fuel to buy a call-in Tiger tank vs. 1 Panther or Brumbar. It costs more manpower to tech and buy the Panther/Brumbar though.

This is why people get tigers or Panzer IV(s) to Tiger in 1 v 1.
22 Jan 2014, 04:40 AM
#44
avatar of Mad_Hatter

Posts: 134

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 01:31 AMPorygon
This thread is really full of shit.

People who cannot kill a freaking blitz panther should play the campaign from the beginning, or even the tutorial.
Just some cons and a single SU85 can kill off the suicidial rushing catz, not even mentioned the lol noob friendly AT nade would not microed away like sticky.

Seriously, it is L2P issue.


You seem to forget that a) panther is essentially a heavy vehicle and b) unlike the Faust at nodes don't engine dmg heavies 99% of the time ... Meaning it is by no means guaranteed to engine DMG a suicidal panther
22 Jan 2014, 04:41 AM
#45
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

If you can't deal with a panther wasting blitz to suicide your lines, then you seriously need to improve your game play. Its pathetic that the metagame in CoH2 "evolves" not by people solving problems and coming up with creative counters and new strategies, but by a handful of people crying to the developers until they fold and accommodate them.

Use mines. Period. That is the hard counter german tank aggression. 30 munitions for each flank/approach shuts down unsupported tank maneuvers. You'll only get tank rushed if you let yourself, otherwise germans are forced to fight your fight.

One thing that has to be taken into consideration with tank balance is each factions ability to repair. Soviets have a lot more options(crew self repair, conscript repair, repair stations), while germans can only mass pioneers. Factor in soviets 1-hit squad wipe options and you have significant vulnerability, even the 82mm mortars precision strike will wipe every pioneer working on the Panthers compact chassis.
22 Jan 2014, 06:22 AM
#46
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



You seem to forget that a) panther is essentially a heavy vehicle and b) unlike the Faust at nodes don't engine dmg heavies 99% of the time ... Meaning it is by no means guaranteed to engine DMG a suicidal panther


then throw one more, is it that hard? :faint:
22 Jan 2014, 06:23 AM
#47
avatar of korgoth

Posts: 170

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2014, 15:17 PMChris
Wy is the panther that cheap in concideration to his skill? I mean yesterday i played the germans (i normaly only play sov.) i get a panther then i hit a mine. 80 % of Hp left then an Iosef stalin 2 arrives and met my panther. Then my panther destroyes the Is-2 in not a minute.... HOW CAN IT BE ????? Panther costs only 145 fuel and Is-2 240 !! More than Tiger but the Is-2 is such a kind of rubbish you only can crush cars on a jung yard with this " Heavy Tank " So pls relict or sega who ever make the Is-2 more strong ... sometimes the Is-2 only bounces on the Pather ... not cool. Fuck of grammar !!


Dont use the IS2 on panthers, the strenght of the IS2 is that it can easily wipe entire squads while the panther is useless against anything but armor and vehicules.
22 Jan 2014, 13:50 PM
#48
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

You seem to forget that a) panther is essentially a heavy vehicle and b) unlike the Faust at nodes don't engine dmg heavies 99% of the time ... Meaning it is by no means guaranteed to engine DMG a suicidal panther


You can also drive a T34 into a panther (not ram but micro it into the path) which causes the Panther to full stop and start to spin in place. You may lose the cheaper T34, but you will halt the Panther and give yourself time to beat on it with AT nades, AT rounds, and other AT units.
22 Jan 2014, 15:21 PM
#49
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

IS-2 is one out of two best Soviet tanks against the Panther period. It's cost ineffective against the panther, but it's the only tank that has armor stats that are greater than the Panther's pen stats.

So you use the IS-2 with the Zis guns and conscripts to even out the odds.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 06:23 AMkorgoth


Dont use the IS2 on panthers, the strenght of the IS2 is that it can easily wipe entire squads while the panther is useless against anything but armor and vehicules.
22 Jan 2014, 16:47 PM
#50
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

It's really hard to believe for me that IS-2 lost to a Panther. I think some truth is missing here unless really terrible play on Soviet side.


BTW on the side note:
Panther with Blitz is the best AI tank in the game capable of killing multiple squads at once. It's hilarious :D
22 Jan 2014, 18:44 PM
#51
avatar of b-VDV

Posts: 17



You seem to forget that a) panther is essentially a heavy vehicle

NO! Go back reading books about WW2 !It is medium tank, as the Wolverine and the t34.
No, panther is also good against infantry thanks his mg42, frontal gun and Blitkrieg ("f**k the history" ability)... wich make your panther faster than V1, making simple to crush infantry...

After reading lot of books about WW2, especially Normandy battle (I'm french and i live in Normandy =D), this game lakes historical truth. The Panther was the fastest tank in the war, also a brilliant Anti Tank weapon but clearly 2 T-34/76 or 2 Shermans (75mm one)(at short range!*) could handle it with ease...wich is not the case in this game ; The panther with its AWESOME Frontal armor is really hard to take down.

A mistake with your panther?
Blitkrieg/Smoke/heavy armor... Well don't panic...
A mistake with your SU-85/ T34-76 or IS-2(!)... Not sure you will keep it alive.
22 Jan 2014, 20:48 PM
#52
avatar of General TheoDErich

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 18:44 PMb-VDV


A mistake with your panther?
Blitkrieg/Smoke/heavy armor... Well don't panic...
A mistake with your SU-85/ T34-76 or IS-2(!)... Not sure you will keep it alive.


While smoke is doctrinal, blitz only works without damaged engine, what should be first thing you aim for as soviet fighting a panther. if engine is crippled, even heavy armor does not help too much, as su-85s or zis can just fire at it withput fear of getting circled

and by the way, su-85 and zis get tracking to hunt down damaged panthers, just use your abilities right, then nothing is invulnerable...
22 Jan 2014, 21:06 PM
#53
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 18:44 PMb-VDV

NO! Go back reading books about WW2 !It is medium tank, as the Wolverine and the t34.
Arguably it is a heavy tank. Germans designated it as a medium tank in their doctrine. It was only about 2 tons lighter than an IS-2 though.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 18:44 PMb-VDV

The Panther was the fastest tank in the war, also a brilliant Anti Tank weapon but clearly 2 T-34/76 or 2 Shermans (75mm one)(at short range!*) could handle it with ease...wich is not the case in this game ; The panther with its AWESOME Frontal armor is really hard to take down.
I don´t know what you mean by "handle it with ease". But if those two T-34/76 or M4 with 75mm gun meet that Panther frontally, they are fucked. Panthers had superb frontal armor. The sides were a weakpoint, but that´s why crews tried to keep a distance to the enemy. In my opinion this is totally wrong depicted in the game. The front armor of the Panther seems meh at best and lolrushing your Panther into the enemy is common.
22 Jan 2014, 21:07 PM
#54
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 18:44 PMb-VDV

NO! Go back reading books about WW2 !It is medium tank, as the Wolverine and the t34.
No, panther is also good against infantry thanks his mg42, frontal gun and Blitkrieg ("f**k the history" ability)... wich make your panther faster than V1, making simple to crush infantry...

After reading lot of books about WW2, especially Normandy battle (I'm french and i live in Normandy =D), this game lakes historical truth. The Panther was the fastest tank in the war, also a brilliant Anti Tank weapon but clearly 2 T-34/76 or 2 Shermans (75mm one)(at short range!*) could handle it with ease...wich is not the case in this game ; The panther with its AWESOME Frontal armor is really hard to take down.

A mistake with your panther?
Blitkrieg/Smoke/heavy armor... Well don't panic...
A mistake with your SU-85/ T34-76 or IS-2(!)... Not sure you will keep it alive.


The panther is as bad as the stug vs infantry. Even worse then the Stuge.
22 Jan 2014, 21:28 PM
#55
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561


I don´t know what you mean by "handle it with ease". But if those two T-34/76 or M4 with 75mm gun meet that Panther frontally, they are fucked. Panthers had superb frontal armor. The sides were a weakpoint, but that´s why crews tried to keep a distance to the enemy. In my opinion this is totally wrong depicted in the game. The front armor of the Panther seems meh at best and lolrushing your Panther into the enemy is common.

Maybe they should give the panther more of a Tank destroyer treatment. Raise it's range, but then reduce it's health. That would allow for it to still be pretty deadly without making it impossible to take out in numbers or if you actually manage to flank it with T34s.
22 Jan 2014, 21:32 PM
#56
avatar of link0

Posts: 337

Panthers have 270 frontal armor, which is a bit lower than the Tiger's 300. It deflects a lot of hits.
23 Jan 2014, 01:40 AM
#57
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 21:32 PMlink0
Panthers have 270 frontal armor, which is a bit lower than the Tiger's 300. It deflects a lot of hits.


just to elaborate on that a bit:

T34/76 has a 29.6% chance to penetrate the front
T34/85 has a 44.4% chance to penetrate the front
SU-76 has a 34.4% chance to penetrate the front
SU-85 has a 62.9% chance to penetrate the front
ZiS3 has a 62.9% chance to penetrate the front

Ram has a 59.3% chance to work when hit in the front.

The panther is a great unit, you dont see them in 1v1s that much for economic reasons rather than performance.
23 Jan 2014, 04:40 AM
#58
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928



just to elaborate on that a bit:

T34/76 has a 29.6% chance to penetrate the front
T34/85 has a 44.4% chance to penetrate the front
SU-76 has a 34.4% chance to penetrate the front
SU-85 has a 62.9% chance to penetrate the front
ZiS3 has a 62.9% chance to penetrate the front

Ram has a 59.3% chance to work when hit in the front.

The panther is a great unit, you dont see them in 1v1s that much for economic reasons rather than performance.


Also because it's usually more cost-effective to hold out for the Tiger tank, which is armoured all around.
23 Jan 2014, 05:01 AM
#59
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

I consider Panther + Brumbar to be excellent, and better than 2 tigers in certain situations.

In other situations, 2 Tigers may be better but overall I don't like using Tigers very much.
23 Jan 2014, 05:59 AM
#60
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

I've started going Panther + Brumbar + command tank. OK, I mainly play team games, but with two or three decent infantry units this is a force to be reckoned with and there isn't much it can't deal with.

I stand by my earlier post, in my last game I made three Panthers as my core force and lolocoptered them all over the map with Blitz. The Soviet players weren't bad, but the speed of the panthers made it easy for me to flank their AT guns and, yes, crush their blob of Guards trying to button me.
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