Panzergrens

Sounds like you are trying hard to justify a losing argument. No one agrees. I don't like to use this ever, but it sounds more like a l2p issue.

if thats the case then so be it, im sure im not the only 1 with this kind of experience though.

however, i think, when shocks nerfs are implemented, the skillbase of people go up a little, then hmmmm.

there's that then, i wont come back this thread to argue anymore.

Pgrens IMO are okay but the shreks are silly, their range needs to be toned down a fair bit, it seems to me they have the same range as tank guns, which basically means they are walking death machines to tanks. Plus they are pretty accurate as well. It's silly seeing all these tank running back in panic to 4 guys with shreks. The range needs to dropped a good deal IMO. PGs are okay but with troops train they are ridiculous early on. To me the thing which needs changing the most are the shreks, or there needs to be a toning down of their DPS vs inf if they take shreks so that countering the shreked pgrens with inf is more effect.

Pgrens IMO are okay but the shreks are silly, their range needs to be toned down a fair bit, it seems to me they have the same range as tank guns, which basically means they are walking death machines to tanks. Plus they are pretty accurate as well. It's silly seeing all these tank running back in panic to 4 guys with shreks. The range needs to dropped a good deal IMO. PGs are okay but with troops train they are ridiculous early on. To me the thing which needs changing the most are the shreks, or there needs to be a toning down of their DPS vs inf if they take shreks so that countering the shreked pgrens with inf is more effect.

Are you serious? Pgrens get their AI dps halfed when buying shrecks. You complainabout a dedicated Tankhunter squad scaring away tanks? really?

Those things are called panzershreck for a reason mate.

Tank terror=panzershreck

Link0 is correct. Pgrens are too much of a manpower drain. Especially considering that there's an excellent chance that a bad RNG roll with a mortar, grenade, etc. will wipe out the entire squad.

Lol is this thread a joke? Pgrens are very easy to deal with even with just conscripts. They are just huge manpower sinks.

LMG grens are IMO, so much better.

I think i found my problem with this, its not the unit thats the problem. its when combined with troop training, an early vet3 pgrens is extremely powerful. without vet though, they are manageable.

although it means later pz4, but with them being upgradable with schrecks at any time means using armour to counter them may not be the best.

I still think they have too much dps, but at least they are soft.

Elite troops doctrine is OP, not PGrens.

Pzg are great, and stomp infantry. But they are a terrible counter to 'Shock troops' because shocks have very high armor. shocks are weak far away but devastating up close.

Countering shock troops with german infantry:

-Use HMGs.
-flamethrower pioneers
-LMG or preferably, G43 grenadiers
-if you're using elite troops, use the stun grenade.

Pzg are great, and stomp infantry. But they are a terrible counter to 'Shock troops' because shocks have very high armor. shocks are weak far away but devastating up close.

Countering shock troops with german infantry:

-Use HMGs.
-flamethrower pioneers
-LMG or preferably, G43 grenadiers
-if you're using elite troops, use the stun grenade.

They aren't a counter, but they do stand a chance. A lucky grenade is usually all it takes to swing the engagement in their favor.

I agree with the op. Pgrens cost 360 MP. Pgrens have really high ROF and pure AI dps. They are non doctrinal. They can become great AT support while going down to average AI.

Penals are the real Soviet equivilant. Yet Penals only have clise ro G43 Gren DPS. What gives?

I have literally in 1v1 had a fuy Rage quit because i Ran with a single Pgren against two scriots whiped the first in mere seconds tossed a bundle on the second fir a lucky squad whipe then force retreated his guards by killing 2 as he was trying to bring it in fir support. This was at Vet 2.

Pgrens WILL kill scripts faster than STs can kill Grens. All day...every day. Not sure why they need all that firepower other than STs exist...

In that case then why do Penals cost the same?

Fine we'll ditch pgrens give us your supermen/shock troopers

Coh2 is too reliant on rofl-stomp hardcounters. While this is already a mistake SC2 made, it's worse in CoH because an individual unit isn't just a number that gets added/substracted from average DPS.

In that case then why do Penals cost the same?

I'm guessing it's the nuclear briefcase they carry and throw at you. Then as you run away thinking you are at a safe distance, you die....

I'm guessing it's the nuclear briefcase they carry and throw at you. Then as you run away thinking you are at a safe distance, you die....

Wow you mean the thing that has a three second timer? Let me guess you play Germany almost exclusivley?

Since until the TA i played hundrwds of Soviet games and now i am up too 100s of German games i dont have a problem dodging an explosove that i know is coming with a three second timer. Soft retreat until it explodes. Then you know your clear...


Not a good way to balance. My guess is its just crap cost balance. They just simply should not cost the same.

Shocks are the only unit in the game that doesnt get not just beat but legendarily destroyed by Pgrens. No other infantry kills other infantry as fast as Pgrens. That is a fact.

I think if Penals were as good as Pgrens at AI instead if being hard countered by LMG and G43 just like conscripts you wouldnt see shocks as much.

Pgrens 360 MP beats easily

Scripts 240 MP can take on two at once and quite often even whipe on retreat.

Scripts with PPSH.

360 MP Penals.

360 MP Guards.

Any and all weapon teams on a flank.

On the other hand the Soviet mirror Penals can take support teams and Vanilla Grens only.....


I know rhis is a German Biased forum presently but that doesnt mean that there arent units on thw german side that over perform for cost.

Not to forget PG ability to clear out support weapons.

Not to forget PG ability to clear out support weapons.

Thats in my wallo text Oz. You just missed it.

jeez stop being butthurt, my point=satchel charge has a huge radius. Thats bias I guess? 3 secs oh wow what a long time I can paint my nails while I wait for it to go off............

Or i can give my unit orders to move and they sit there for 1 or 2 secs waiting for that one guy who doesn't feel the urgency to move......

There is plenty of time to get out of blast radius even with CoH2 input lag.
You can only loose the squad if you are not paying attention due to microing something else or you just waited for no reason or underestimated blast radius.

Can you get out , yes.

Have plenty of time, no

I have faced Penals dozens of times. Twice ive bewn satchel owned. One time i was miceoing another battle. The other rime he was genius and hid qirh trusight and remaining hidden had his ine penal run around rhe corner and tossed it on my mg mortor and pak.

I have also theown it hundreds of times. And hit a few.

Pgrens melt face every time. I am sure if rwlic bothered to pull unit kill stats Pgrens would always come out way ahead of penals....satchel or no.

And they cost the same and perform the same function. Pgrens imho are the very best AI in the game for cost...

that would be shocktroopers