Panzergrens

I actually find PZGren quite underwhelming, to be honest. Expensive 4man squad gets taken out quite easily by just about anything that isn't conscripts. I don't even think the elite vetting thing really matters for them because it doesn't help their survivability. Just focus fire and they go down really fast.

If they're spamming them, maxim to control. It won't single handedly stop every unit, but taking a few pgrens out of the fight makes easy work for your other units.

T34s or even T70s are great against them as well. If upgraded to shreks be a bit more careful and support, but otherwise you're basically doing 45mp+ a shot of damage.

Molotov or grenade in their charge path, either they back off or take lots of damage on approach. Even having a flamethrower engineer will cause them to hit the deck and take a lot of damage.

Mines are fantastic as well - you're almost guaranteed to get at least 2 models down, which forces a retreat. Against blobs it's even better!

If you're trying to beat them with just conscripts and/or guards, it's really a l2play issue.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't think that they're bad or need a buff or anything. But properly countered, they're nothing special and a huge mp drain to the Ostheer. If you let them sneak around and flank your ZiS then yeah they're nasty, but that's your own fault.

False, that was the case for Assault Grenadiers in CoH1, but not here. The Panzergrenadiers lose act exactly the same moving as they do not moving. Shock Troops fire in 50% longer bursts but have 25% less accuracy.

pgrens have the same dps when moving or standing still. shocks do gain dps because 50% longer bursts more than offsets the reduced accuracy.

Shocks and Pgrens fire more often if they move, raising their DPS

It doesn't help in that video though, because they don't fire with their back turned against the enemy.

shocks come out sooner than pgs, especially vet pgs. vetting a pg also makes it cost more than a shock squad, not to mention the fact you have to tech. also, shocks reinforce cost is cheaper than pgs and each entity is more durable...

Vetting a PG costs more, but only up front. Reinforcement cost does NOT increase.

The reinforcement cost is per model. A vet2 PGren model is more expensive than a Vet0 shock model, but is FAR stronger per model. This is why buying Vet is OP.

My point is that: if people consider Shocks to be OP, they should consider purchasable vet to be even more OP. I personally don't think Shocks nor PGrens are OP.

Vetting a PG costs more, but only up front. Reinforcement cost does not increase.

The reinforcement is per model. A vet2 PGren model is more expensive than a Vet0 shock model, but is FAR stronger per model. This is why it's OP.

My point is what if people consider Shocks to be OP, they should consider purchasable vet to be even more OP. I personally don't think Shocks nor PGrens are OP.

I agree 100%. Both units are strong, but neither is op, and neither unit needs to be changed in any way.

Vetting a PG costs more, but only up front. Reinforcement cost does not increase.

The reinforcement cost is per model. A vet2 PGren model is more expensive than a Vet0 shock model, but is FAR stronger per model. This is why it's OP.

My point is what if people consider Shocks to be OP, they should consider purchasable vet to be even more OP. I personally don't think Shocks nor PGrens are OP.

FINALLY. people that get it. not the few that keep preaching pgrens must wipe cons.

Just curious, what do you think the the state of balance would be if you nerfed pgs and kept shocks the same?

Just curious, what do you think the the state of balance would be if you nerfed pgs and kept shocks the same?

I think it would depend a lot on how you nerf them (either way would serve to imbalance the game but to different degrees).

If you made them come out later there would be a bigger window that soviet elite infantry (guards specifically) dominate which clearly wouldn't be good for game play. The reason I say guards is because in my mind pgrens are the counter to guards since you can't really roll light vehicles at them like you can shocks.

If you nerf their AI then shocks get better by comparison which again wouldn't be ideal because now so inf can deal much better with pgrens whereas ost now have an even harder time vs shocks.

If they needed the AT ability it probably wouldn't be a hard hit since German AT is superior to soviet AT already.

IMO if anything needs nerfing at all its the elite troop instavet everything bs ability.

If you nerf their AI then shocks get better by comparison which again wouldn't be ideal because now so inf can deal much better with pgrens whereas ost now have an even harder time vs shocks.

I miss CoH1's system of armours, where you could change how X and Y fight each other without altering how X and Z fight. An example would be how Panzer Grenadiers could lose to Engineers, but not be worthless when fighting Rifles.

SGT44 paintball firearm...