Another nerf needed

I think the area the plane covers and the fact that it wipes retreating squads is a way bigger issue than the actual damage it does.

If you reduce the area it will kill the who point of the strafe. Why not just make it another bombing run...

As I said if you reduce the damage it will not kill full health squads, even on retreat. Now if you have squads with 1-2 guys or 50% below HP then there is a huge chance they can die. If they die you can only blame your self for not retreating them early on.

2nd option could be:
The way I see it is strafe should do 25% damage of the given units health at the moment. So if you have full health squad 100% first pass would do 25% of that and bring it to 75%, second pass will do what is doing now(annihilate). This way no full health squad will ever die, but don't stick around to find out for the second pass.

Warning: squads down to 25% health will die on the first pass

@computerheat

Question is why are flares doing damage in the first place? It should be a cheap early warning system for the soviets... not another "mine" in their arsenal.

Soviet plane costs 240 munition and can be deny easily by Ostwind or MG mounted on almost every German tank.
For 240 it better does kill something. I would say you are in a worse spot as a Soviet if you went T4 and German player is using German strafe because you have no counters at all.

So I need to go T3, and must build Ostwinds to protect myself and have them babysit my infantry all the time? Even so Ostwinds miss. I had two Ostwinds against players both using strafe. They shot down the first plane fine. But the 2nd strafe they missed every time (thank you RNG) and the plane circled three times and killed most of my army. GG, RNG, GG.

This is just silly. Yes, a plane can be shot down, and if he strafes frequently this is the problem. But you almost always get the first pass. The problem here is the complete wiping of squads on that first pass.

If you saw that he went opel and you did not plan for strafe that is your own fault. Either that or pay and back tech to get anti-air. Strafe is the counter to heavy infantry rushes and is heavily nerfed now. Squads recover from the pin before the plane makes another pass. This is less of a problem when infantry are spread out since no squad will get wiped and most will not be pinned at the same time. Also if he is doing lots of strafing you need to figure out why he is not spending munitions elsewhere. Why can't you make him commit to spending munitions on upgrades to control your units?

Again it costs 240 munition so you wont see it used more than once per game. It comes pretty late as well and as a German you are going to build T3 any way.

It comes pretty late as well and as a German you are going to build T3 any way.

Great. So I have to build T3 in case the enemy chooses one OP ability?

What about the days of tier-skipping, T1/T4 etc.

Because of comedy sov powers, it's increasingly difficult to do.

I also think the Soviet HSR is indeed to strong.

Again it costs 240 munitions so you wont see it used more than once per game. It comes pretty late as well and as a German you are going to build T3 any way.

You are correct OZ - the ability is expensive but the damage inflicted is huge.

Given that in any evenly matched 1v1 there probably is just a maximum of one Ostwind (RNG raliant counter for passes after the first one) around by the time the HSR is available eliminating that one tank (or keeping that unit busy firing at infantry) will result in guaranteed multiple squad wipes for your opponent.

There is no way to escape this when it's used against you as a part of a well executed assault:
The HSR will not only kill on the first pass but will also literally follow you home and slaughter units left and right.
... even inflcting damage to tanks.

Doesn't that seem a bit strong?

- Double post please delete -

the problem i have with the il2 strafe is the first pass it makes. its literally impossible to avoid. when the soviet calls in the strafe and you see flares, the plane has already picked its target. even if you retreat that unit, the il2 will chase it down no matter how far away it gets from the initial call in point. thats why it kills retreating squads so often. after that first pass its pretty easy to avoid.

from what i understand, this wont/cant be changed for some reason, but this ability really does need to be looked at.

I think the problem with this ability is that it's really hard to counter/avoid, even with an Ostwind, it was able to kill 2 of my squads.

Probably the idea to reduce it's area of effect is a good one and go from there.

Just played a game where this was used well multiple times. It was just about crippling in a large battle (this was 3v3) where tanks and infantry were trying to move around. It was wiping squads picking off injured tanks and being devastating in general.

Just so you know Oz we had 2 ostwinds to counter it, but since there were so many infantry targets to engage they ignored the plane. Lost almost my entire army even after retreating, and then it finished off a Stug for good measure.

I just watched 2 replays casted by Imperial Dane featuring German Strafe run and German's equivalent of IL2 run.
Soviet player lost the game due to strafe run because he went T4 and there was nothing to counter the plane.
In the second one German player have used this IL2 equivalent and inflicted have loses to Soviet player destroying some damaged tanks as well so German equivalent is quite lethal as well despite cheaper price.
I'm not saying IL2 run is a weak ability because its not but it is a late game have nuke. Costs a lot so it really can be used once per game so it better does inflict so heavy damage. If you want to nerf it then change the cost as well and I will be OK with it. I don't rely on it to win games.
3v3 games are unbalanced by default so it will be used more but no ability shoul ever be balanced with 3v3 in mind because it's pointless and stupid idea. These games are for fun only.

What we need is a way to toggle AA-mode for Ostwind and M5 Quad so they don't shoot at infantry when a strafing run you want to shoot down is around.

That, and also fix the damn first pass like wooof said.

Soviet plane costs 240 munition and can be deny easily by Ostwind or MG mounted on almost every German tank

Is this a joke? Turret mgs have a negligible chance of shooting down a plane and going an ostwind to counter the possibility of a plane is ridiculous.

I have no issue with the plane wiping squads in the area where the ability is deployed, but I do have a huge issue with the plane hunting down squads around the map and wiping then at random.

All planes work this way. Small chance this will change.

I know that having to build a unit counter just to counter the unit it's a silly idea. They should change this.

...

Just lost 2 full health vet2 pzgrens squads + pak. Not call in should be this powerful. So dumb......

Ostwinds aren't very good at shooting planes down. M5s are much better. Dunno why.

Anyway, I think air attacks on both sides need to be toned down. It would be senseless to nerf the soviet strafe only.

Just lost 2 full health vet2 pzgrens squads + pak. Not call in should be this powerful. So dumb......

Sector artillery is that strong if not stronger since it kills infantry and tanks alike, all for a similar price. The only difference is that it's aoe is more obvious so it's easier to avoid. If there is any change to be made it's the way the ability chooses it's targets, because once it chooses it will sometimes follow them outside it's AoE.

Ostwinds aren't very good at shooting planes down. M5s are much better. Dunno why.

Anyway, I think air attacks on both sides need to be toned down. It would be senseless to nerf the soviet strafe only.

Pquemish mentioned that they both have the exact same chance to shoot down planes.

Pquemish mentioned that they both have the exact same chance to shoot down planes.

M5s are better because the rate of fire is higher and the Ostwind is slower unless is vet2

Thats not how i undersrood it. Do you have a source. All i heard him mention is in practice they are about the same and top hunners are abysmally low.

Again it costs 240 munition so you wont see it used more than once per game. It comes pretty late as well and as a German you are going to build T3 any way.

You dont play teamgames do you? In 2v2s and up you see it used frequently. Heck, I even used it 3 times during a 45 min game roughly 1 hour ago. You dont even have to dominate the field, you just dont use that many mollies. When 12 cps hit, you most likely got 400+ muni in the bank. Skillplane away.

As for sector, you can retreat out of it, but also, it can dish out ALOT more hurt. Have seen numerous examples in games I have played, and in replays. On choky areas it can totally waste the opponent if he is not carefull.

Why are teamgames relevant? Because the majority of the playerbase play teamgames. I dont say balance everything for 2v2 and up, because that would be very difficult, but to say that an ability is not used more than once is just not true when in teamgames they are.