since we are adding prototype tanks in game

Because there are no soviets in COH3, so its not something we have to worry about. If there were Soviets in COH3, then I wouldn’t mind the BP. I already stated I would at least like the individual factions to represent what they’re based on to a certain degree. The DAK is the opposing faction of the Brits in COH3 and they don’t have weird 1945 gear, so why should the British? There is literally no reason for including this vehicle at all.

No soviets yet u mean. Would not at all be surprised if they got added just like USF/OKW/Brits in coh2. Hell lots of ppl wanted a japanese faction in coh2 (not me) so i think u r seriously underestimating the fanbase of coh's tolerance for things that arent historically accurate

You can hide behind balance again but it’s got more to do with the design inherent to heavy tanks you don’t like.

What the fuck r u talking about here? I dont like or dislike the BP. Im just not having a conniption over its addition because im used to Relic taking a poetic license with ww2

Im not hiding behind anything either, just giving my opinion about my preferences. Im far from the only one who didnt like heavy tank meta after the patch where heavies for all factions got overbuffed

Adhering to history is more complex than either being used or being a prototype. No one wants to have entire factions made up of prototypes but the question is to what extent factions can be up of prototypes, rare vehicles and vehicles that were deployed after fighting in a theater ended.

I wouldn’t mind if the BP was in COH2 since it is later war and they have taken liberties, but many of those are not in COH3. The British are more based on the army of 1942/1943 but they somehow feel the need to include a vehicle that is off by a larger margin than ever before. By you own admission, there is only one prototype. That makes it stand out even more and raises the question on why that number couldn’t be zero.

I have no clue why they decided to add it. All im saying is they need do a lot more than that to lose me as a player, and u urself have said the exact same thing...

I am not sure what people are debating here.

Each person can have its own "limit" as to want to see as units in Coh2. For some people that limit is prototypes units which they do not want to see in the game.

That irrelevant to:
Axis or allies
Balance
Game play
V1
Sturmtiger
Vamp ST44
IR HT
...

I am not sure what people are debating here.

Each person can have its own "limit" as to want to see as units in Coh2. For some people that limit is prototypes units which they do not want to see in the game.

That irrelevant to:
Axis or allies
Balance
Game play
V1
Sturmtiger
Vamp ST44
IR HT
...

My main point is that BP is not any stranger than some of the other liberties Relic has alredy taken. Thats it

I only bring up balance to say i care more about that than i do about historical accuracy. Doesnt mean history is unimportant

But if the BP causes balance issues (like the heavies in coh2 often did), that will bother me more than it being a prototype that never saw action

My main point is that BP is not any stranger than some of the other liberties Relic has alredy taken. Thats it

I only bring up balance to say i care more about that than i do about historical accuracy. Doesnt mean history is unimportant

But if the BP causes balance issues (like the heavies in coh2 often did), that will bother me more than it being a prototype that never saw action

It might or it might not be "stranger" but it is something new since up to now no prototypes units that saw no action where included in COH.

The unit is relevant to all the stretches on history the devs made on fictional depictions and representations of units for the sake of gameplay and balance. They discuss that in their own commentary on the new game.

It indeed may or may not be stranger but as the devs said in their own stream they weigh these choices such as for the way the KT and JT saw representation for the sake of said gameplay. The fact its a design based decision weighted to add to the game. Id call the unit not much stranger than the potential for a KT and JT to attend every MP match in COH2, whereas both units compatriots on COH1 required doctrine choices. I'm glad they're putting the same design reasonings used to make fictional representations of units or history to the products benefit.

Cuz they didnt even start physically building one until the 70s.... Of course BP is a stretch and unrealistic. Its just singificantly less unrealistic than an abrams....


Lol u a moderator now? Thats funny

Look mate sadly it's clear as day that you just want to stick it to "wehraboos" at this point.

Not even you think that BP in and of itself is a good and "historical" addition. You just want to OwN wEhRaBoOs by some shitty mental gymnastics like the incidence rate of ST during the war (which, mind you, was made 20times more than BP hahah) or how good JT was portrayed in the game or whatever.

I think you should just come clean about this and stop trying to give reason to what you say.

Being completed while the war was going on works for me... I rly shouldnt have to explain the difference between 1945 and the 1970s, i would hope thats relatively obvious

But answer my question? Where do u draw the line for authenticity?

Its okay for tanks to be portrayed completely innacurately, as long as the models were real? Their speed and handling can be on par with modern cars, the battles they are fighting in can be completely fabricated, they can be reliably lazered from the sky by planes, they can be spotted by a flare launched from a mortar, but as long as the names and appearance are correct its still considered "authentic"?

That makes zero sense to me. The BP breaks immersion for u, but how the hell were u ever immersed in the first place???

Again with the lazer plane idiotic analogy.

And once again I will say the answer: said planes EXISTED during the war.

yeah and a game set in ww2 will have certain limitations when you decide whats going to be in the game. Coh2 had already stretched it enough with ostwinds/ST's etc. but BP is on another level of ludicrousness

Just for the record:

pick the most niche tank you can find in COH2. ST, Ostwind, Hetzer whatever...

It still got produced 20x more than BP.

Imagine that.

Look mate sadly it's clear as day that you just want to stick it to "wehraboos" at this point.

Not even you think that BP in and of itself is a good and "historical" addition. You just want to OwN wEhRaBoOs by some shitty mental gymnastics like the incidence rate of ST during the war (which, mind you, was made 20times more than BP hahah) or how good JT was portrayed in the game or whatever.

I think you should just come clean about this and stop trying to give reason to what you say.

U once again prove ur lack of reading comprehension

I already told ur whining ass i would be okay with the Maus as long its balanced, even tho thats not historical either. Does that sound like someone trying to stick it to the wheraboos?

Unlike some ppl i enjoy playing both sides, fuck off dumbass. I dont care about wheraboos and i dont care about churchill's groupies either

Again with the lazer plane idiotic analogy.

And once again I will say the answer: said planes EXISTED during the war.

Again with u missing the point lol

I don't want anything in my Company of Heroes games that was not in the official table of equipment and organization of a combat unit at the year and region of battle depicted.

Game would be so much better, and more authentic. And it would be easy to balance if the people in charge had something concrete to stick to instead of just making shit up as they go.

Gott strafe braindead heavy tank users, also. Single-handedly ruin WW2 RTS games everywhere with their dumbassery.

I don't want anything in my Company of Heroes games that was not in the official table of equipment and organization of a combat unit at the year and region of battle depicted.

Game would be so much better, and more authentic. And it would be easy to balance if the people in charge had something concrete to stick to instead of just making shit up as they go.

Gott strafe braindead heavy tank users, also. Single-handedly ruin WW2 RTS games everywhere with their dumbassery.

Why on earth would this make the game easier to balance?

Just for the record:

pick the most niche tank you can find in COH2. ST, Ostwind, Hetzer whatever...

It still got produced 20x more than BP.

Imagine that.

Just for the record 20 x 0 is 0. Wich is the contribution of some niche units such as the st to the war. Same as the bp namely 0.

it has an interesting history you said, thats subjective.
It contributed next to nothing. It was insignificant or rather irrelevant in the war. Statisticly speaking there is no real difference between that and a prototype.

The criteria of it needs to have fired a shot in a battle (wich is the argument being made) is a very weak one at best.
And even weaker is that then historical accuracy takes a big step back for "gameplay" to step up.

If one goes full retard on historical accuracy, be consistant and and stick with it. And dont cherry pick things when it suits you.

Relic has re-written the history of vehicles before. Somehow we got a stock KT at 500 made and a doctrinal and now mostly relegated IS2 that is an infantry only wagon in a couple doctrines with some 3,000 built.

Why? Because they don't care about numbers.

For gameplay reasons Relic don't care about numbers or a units failed history in combat like the sturmtiger. They want interesting units. Again within historical fiction, what this product there isn't a special separation of the fiction of a useful sturmtiger and a deployed Black Prince both things didn't occur.

Relic is welcome to make the same fictional choices in their product. As others have pointed out this new shake of fiction sprinkles isn't going to spoil the fiction layer cake of COH 2 whose layers include KT/JT, useful sutrmtiger, stock IR halftracks, invincible stuka aircraft etc..

They don't care, and don't need to care about this tailored gatekeeping of historical (insert label trying to create new genre of fiction where prototypes are the line) because they have done this in all previous iterations of the franchise, created fictional events to make an interesting product.

Relic has re-written the history of vehicles before. Somehow we got a stock KT at 500 made and a doctrinal and now mostly relegated IS2 that is an infantry only wagon in a couple doctrines with some 3,000 built.

No they have not. On the contrary the pride themselves that "every battle tells a story".

OKW represent the army that took place in battle of bulge and that army used KT.

As for IS-2 is a balanced unit that has good AT capabilities so I am not sure why you want to sell it sort.

Why? Because they don't care about numbers.

For gameplay reasons Relic don't care about numbers or a units failed history in combat like the sturmtiger. They want interesting units. Again within historical fiction, what this product there isn't a special separation of the fiction of a useful sturmtiger and a deployed Black Prince both things didn't occur.

Balance comes before historical accuracy and there would be little reason for unit that bad in real life like the Valentine or Churchill to be included in the game if there would be no point in building one.

As for ST combat history if you have any historic source of being "failed" feel free to share them.

And not there is a great difference between a vehicle seeing action and a vehicle not being deployed in the front-line.

Relic is welcome to make the same fictional choices in their product. As others have pointed out this new shake of fiction sprinkles isn't going to spoil the fiction layer cake of COH 2 whose layers include KT/JT, useful sutrmtiger, stock IR halftracks, invincible stuka aircraft etc..

No Relic is not welcomed to make fictional choices in their product. There people who do not like fictional things in COH franchise as clearly seen in this thread, there are people who feel that including BP is similar to including a flying saucer.

And no there is no rule that say that "rare" units should be doctrinal and mass produced units should be stock.

Finally there is no "invincible stuka aircraft" that is included in COH2. Stuka planes can be shot down

They don't care, and don't need to care about this tailored gatekeeping of historical (insert label trying to create new genre of fiction where prototypes are the line) because they have done this in all previous iterations of the franchise, created fictional events to make an interesting product.

No Relic does care about players feedback and does try to make have historical accuracy when possible. For instance they have gone so far as to change the size of magazines to be closer to that of the real weapon.

It is clear that you do not mind BP in the game but you simply have to accept the fact that other have the right to set the line where they want and it seems that there is a number of people set the line in prototype units.

Alright, some people don't like the idea of fictionnal tank/prototype. I get it, but why should relic listen to you? What is your legitimity on this topic. We're talking about this subject for weeks now but we are a small part of the community. Like it or not, our opinion is irrelevant. When relic is selling their product it's selling to the people that know the game but don't play a lot, WW2 interested people, strategy enjoyers. But not us the diehard fans. Why? because we're so small that we buying the game or not won't change. So my take on this topic is who cares about historical accuracy? Why? And in the end no one cares outside of us about this debate. Altought it's fun to read those.

Alright, some people don't like the idea of fictionnal tank/prototype. I get it, but why should relic listen to you? What is your legitimity on this topic. We're talking about this subject for weeks now but we are a small part of the community. Like it or not, our opinion is irrelevant. When relic is selling their product it's selling to the people that know the game but don't play a lot, WW2 interested people, strategy enjoyers. But not us the diehard fans. Why? because we're so small that we buying the game or not won't change. So my take on this topic is who cares about historical accuracy? Why? And in the end no one cares outside of us about this debate. Altought it's fun to read those.

Then it's time for Relic to stop stating again and again that they care about history, authenticity, and that they listen to the community. They already said it when they did CoH2 and shit in their pants. And again they said the same thing when they develop CoH3 and again violate their own words again and again. That's legitimacy for you.

Alright for the "listening the community part", And why are we the part of the community they should listen to? ,but please define authenticity. We are talking about a GAME, not a book, a film, a documentary, not a piece of Hisotory. WW2 was an horrible period people died in millions, genocide took place, all sort of horrors were commited; if the game is fun it will never be authentic nor historic. And as someone pointed that he has a PHD i'm a university student in XXe History focusing on armies and war.

Alright for the "listening the community part", And why are we the part of the community they should listen to? ,but please define authenticity. We are talking about a GAME, not a book, a film, a documentary, not a piece of Hisotory. WW2 was an horrible period people died in millions, genocide took place, all sort of horrors were commited; if the game is fun it will never be authentic nor historic. And as someone pointed that he has a PHD i'm a university student in XXe History focusing on armies and war.

Let's point by point:
- listen to the community, everyone here can agree without explanation that Relic likes to assert but not to fulfill
- Authenticity, so far nothing in the game goes beyond the authenticity of the Second World War: weapons, tanks, planes, all this was in the war at that time. Of course the infantry skins are far from 100% authentic, but that could be fixed in the CoH2 life cycle if Relic gave modding tools.
- Historic, oh no. For the phrases of generals Malinovsky or Chuyokovsky taken out of context or invented alone, Relik should be sued for libel. For this I have criticized and will continue to criticize Relic.

Then it's time for Relic to stop stating again and again that they care about history, authenticity, and that they listen to the community. They already said it when they did CoH2 and shit in their pants. And again they said the same thing when they develop CoH3 and again violate their own words again and again. That's legitimacy for you.

Listening doenst mean do as you are told. Wich is what the anti prototype people want. Do as we say...

Like it or not the bp isent gonna break or kill the emmersion of the game other then it probably frees allies of td spam to an extent. Wich a lot of player actualy dont like about coh2. So maybe they did listen.

can some1 post the BP alternatives?