soviet defensive commander MG

hey guys,

the Balance team has this item on their radar. Thanks for all the feedback

That's good to hear thanks for the info!

The AP Rounds only add Penetration, yes.

But what some people dont seem to be realising, is that with the extremely high base dmg of Dusche, when you pop AP, you negate the 1.5 armor value of Ost infantry as well, causing all of that to penetrate as raw dmg.

So you not only suppress the infantry 1s faster than Maxim (2s faster than MG42), but you also do DOUBLE the base dmg of Maxim, and when you pop AP, you hit the unit in the face with all of that as if it was a 4man Con squad.

See what I mean?

Takes a little thinking to realise that instead of glibbly blurting "hurrdurr but it adds no dmg". It does, indirectly, by bypassing the Ost infantry armor design.

That, and ofc that it is an automatic counter to Osts entire light vehicle roster., whereas it is the light AT Gun on the same Commander that should be doing that. Who needs the light ATG when Dusche can counter 222s and HTs in and of itself already?

Im redacting my Range change suggestion, since that would entail having to compress the range dmg even further.

Instead Im going for a setuptime LONGER or atleast equal to MG42 proposal now, to atleast force premptive positioning and easier flanking of such a brutal setup team.

I also like Spjns suggestioj of reducing the crew count, though Id go with 4 instead of 3.
In anycase, for such a brutally aggressive HMG, flanking needs to be rewarded in comparison to its relative strength.
Wither by setuptime, or reduced durability through crew count.

yes best option 4 man squad so it have a high chance to lose you 360 mg to an 20 ammo rifelgranade....

And 400 MP, then you can't just spam 3 out without it costing too much.

People could still get one to a key building early if they wanted, but at that price their opponent could just go other half of the map while they get a mortar to counter it.

0.5 CP could work too, if they implemented more CPs as they seem to be testing in the streams. There's a few abilities which would sit better between 0-1 CP.

yes best option 4 man squad so it have a high chance to lose you 360 mg to an 20 ammo rifelgranade....

Fair observation, even if unduly sarcastic and a bit exaggerated.

Perhaps a setuptime increase then.

In anycase, its too effective even for its cost.
Twice the DPS, 1s faster suppression and native AP is too much.

Somethings got to go on this unit. The CP issue is obvious aside from that.

It has no drawbacks, no achilles heel, and doubles the Maxims advantages over MG42 as it currently is as well as countering light vehicles which traditionally speaking are supposed to be one option for countering HMGs.

Not sure if AP ammo actually cancels infantry armor.

It does seem very powerful at times. Still having helluva a time getting them out of buildings. Best is to just avoid them entirely if that's the case (or mortar).

Flanking works ok, but as with all the soviet support weapons, it's very sturdy.

If your German support team gets flanked you have to instant retreat or lose the entire squad (of course you should guard it, but doing so you're loosing out on capping the rest of the map, which is why people are just going gren spam; map control).

Glad to hear it's being looked over, it has a role, but it's a tad too versatile at the moment.

Not sure if AP ammo actually cancels infantry armor.

It does. There is no difference between vehicle armor and infantry armor (1-2.25~). Vehicle armor is just a lot higher (~8-300) and small arms tend to have a very low penetration (1).
So an increase to 9 or 10 penetration means the HMG gets to ignore the armor of infantry completely. This results in a 50% damage increase vs. Grenadiers/Panzergrenadiers. It even ignores the bonus armor Grenadiers get at veterancy 3.

its almost twice as good as the maxim i agree but if you lose it and ost grabs it... thats they down side.

and ofcorse there has to be a normal counter to it and not getting out 2 mortars to kil it becuz its bunkerd down in a building

but here is sumting i just came up with.


:have the maxim get the duska upgade at 1 cp wile keeping al its vet it has as maxim if it had any for an x amount of ammo and a bit of mp like i dont know 50 mp or 100 and 50 or 75 ammo

@ nullist: Fair observation, even if unduly sarcastic and a bit exaggerated.\


how often do you see rifel granade do noting and and how often you see it kil almost entire squads. i see it do the last one a bit more often then not

Does Dusche retain the last man like 120mm does?

Does Dusche retain the last man like 120mm does?

of course, it has the same animations as the maxim which could always retreat with one man. only mortars and at guns die at one man and that's always been more because of animation limitations.

of course, it has the same animations as the maxim which could always retreat with one man. only mortars and at guns die at one man and that's always been more because of animation limitations.

Which is yet another argument indicating increasing setuptime is the way to go.

For double the DPS, 1s faster suppression, native AP rounds to mitigate Ost infantry armor AND light vehicles, this unit is ridiculously overpowered for the mere cost of a Sniper over a Maxim.

The cost can stay as is. The CP is obviously in need of a change.
The problem is its cost efficiency.

Its only 0.5s slower to setup than Maxim, which is still much faster than MG42.
Also, as i stated eaelier, there is a bug that it doesnt display sesetup time properly.

With how super effective this unit is as DPS, suppression and even AP, it needs a longer setup time.
Frankly, atleast as long if not longer than MG42.

hey guys,

the Balance team has this item on their radar. Thanks for all the feedback

there you go thx

maby they gona do the same as the 120mm make it 400 and usless

btw: is it just me or does the last man on a german mortar team run? i seen it a few times happen and i was wondering why and why the guy with the 120mm can troll that thing back to base on his own

Suppression and Damage values for this gun should be decreased. Changing its range or set up time is not a good move. I am even for small cost increase but they will have to be careful with this so the unit is not useless.
Changing so its CP1 would work as well.

I find that Dshk it pins too fast.

And some increase in setup time would be fine too.

For +120MP you get:
-Double the DPS of Maxim
-Fastest Suppress in the game (even 1s faster than Maxims already fast rate, 2s faster than MG42)
-Native AP Rounds for +50%more dmg on Ost infantry AND a light vehicle hard counter
-Dont have to build T2
-0.5 Setup speed slower than Maxim, still much shorter than MG42, as the only stat drawback.
(Also, there is a bug now where it doesnt show desetup timer bar)

The more I consider this, the more Im in favor of a setup time.
Say about 0.5 slower than MG42.

There is a bit of a systemic problem that with AP rounds it is a valid Light Vehicle counter, making the 45mm ATG somewhat obsolete on the same Commander.

Frankly, it may need to have the AP Rounds swapped to V1.
Perhaps make Sprint the Native ability instead?
Combined with the slower setup time I propose, it would allow it to deploy around the field faster to support, by crossing bigger distances, and being better able to react to flanks by sprinting after desetup so as to not make it completely retarded vs flanks.

As to pinning, no-one gives a shit about that.
Suppression is already well sufficient to cripple a unit, and only a retard hasnt retreated before Pinning ever even happens.

Overall, I think the Suppression/Pinning may need some adjustment. Suppression is so primary in comparison and so powerful, that Pinning frankly never even practically happens.

this thread should be closed. as eagleheart21 already said the allmighty russian-buzzsaw (walking into mg42, fire setting up there and then decrewing the mg, haha) is under inspection by the balancing team. in my opinion further discussion is futile until the intended changes have been implemented. after the next patch we could start arguing if the adjustments were sufficient enough.

Didn't know this gun and tried to dislocate it from a building with a fht
fun times

relic should just release a quick hotfix like they did for assgrens and nerf this, industry and Ace

Didn't know this gun and tried to dislocate it from a building with a fht
fun times

relic should just release a quick hotfix like they did for assgrens and nerf this, industry and Ace

It's been over two weeks. I wouldn't really call anything they do at this point quick.