For coh3, why not be a bit esporty

and remove base defenses

If anything, base defenses need to be much better that they are in Coh2.

I would make a watch tower right over your base that shoots anything within 50 meters.

Or make all defenses like the OKW flak defenses so they shoot everywhere. The current Coh2 defenses suck ballz. They have different ranges and arcs etc. It makes mapping a nightmare.

There is nothing more immersion breaking than bad guys just left/right of the arc of your base MG and the gunner is just diddling his butthole while your base gets raped.

And ABSOLUTELY do not make the defenses look like any other unit. For example: the OST defenses are just bunkers. Mappers can't use defenses in many places because they confuse OST players.

There should also be two zones for your base.
1) Actual base area where you can make buildings.
2) A buffer zone that limits artillery hitting the base.

We could just map larger base areas, but most players will just build on the edge of the base no matter what.

If Relic makes another base like the USF base we should all go there and smash their nuts with hammers. The USF base is ranked as the 27th stupidest thing humanity has ever created. It buildings are safe inside of shot blockers. It adds random MG bunkers that break normal base layouts for mappers. Clearly some high level dildo said "This is cool" and no one there had the balls to quietly kill him in the parking lot later that week and burn the bones after feeding the organ meat to great white sharks feeding of the pacific coast.

Nice b8 m8.

I think the failure of CoH2 to gain esports attention should be an indicator that the devs should move more towards fun and interesting gameplay instead of going the "muh esports" route again.

I wouldn't mind exploitable gaps in base defenses, akin to Sturzdorf in CoH1, as long as they're intentionally designed and balanced that way.

Base inspections were a solid option in CoH1 but really took a backseat in CoH2, with harder to kill buildings, no off-maps in HQ sectors (that one is fine being left out imo) and in some cases completely exaggerated base defenses (looking at you, okw and usf). It served its purpose in CoH1 mainly as a tool to quickly finish off weaker opponents and also as a way to break up the conventional 3 VP grind.

Baserushes should absolutely be thing, I don't get what it has to do with esports tho.

I think the failure of CoH2 to gain esports attention should be an indicator that the devs should move more towards fun and interesting gameplay instead of going the "muh esports" route again.

They did not go for "muh esports"

They did not go for "muh esports"

I wish.

I think the failure of CoH2 to gain esports attention should be an indicator that the devs should move more towards fun and interesting gameplay instead of going the "muh esports" route again.

I think this is due to a misunderstanding. It's not esports that attracts people to the game, but the game that attracts people to esports. If the game sucks but is focused on "e-sports" (DoW3), then nothing good will come of it. A good quality game attracts a diverse audience, including people who organize tournaments. So the main recipe for "e-sports" is a good, interesting game.

I think this is due to a misunderstanding. It's not esports that attracts people to the game, but the game that attracts people to esports. If the game sucks but is focused on "e-sports" (DoW3), then nothing good will come of it. A good quality game attracts a diverse audience, including people who organize tournaments. So the main recipe for "e-sports" is a good, interesting game.

Thank you. Agree 100%

Umm it is really hard to consider Coh2 in the realm of e-sport when it has such a ridiculous level of RNG.

For Coh3 to even be considered, it would need to reduce the randomness of the game considerably.

In my mind you have a few levels of RNG:

1) So little RNG that it becomes a boring spamfest.

2) Coh2 level of stupid RNG. It is fun to watch someone get totally screwed by RNG. But this level makes the game suck to actually play for many people. Especially when it comes to indirect fire and larger modes (the most popular).

3) Something in between 1 and 2 would be great. Enough RNG for some exciting things to happen.

Examples of 3 are:
- Your mortars cant hit shit but the enemy is erasing squads on the move with no FOV.
- Tanks shooting the ground 7 times in a row while enemies pen every shot with max damage.
- ALL Artillery in COH2 sucks major ass. Whoever wrote this code should die of anal polyps and burn in hell.

I have not really heard anyone here say what would help Coh3 be esports ready.

Removing base defenses sounds insanely bad to me. "Hey lets remove the only mechanic that lets players be more aggressive?"

Anything else?

I wouldn't mind exploitable gaps in base defenses, akin to Sturzdorf in CoH1, as long as they're intentionally designed and balanced that way.

Base inspections were a solid option in CoH1 but really took a backseat in CoH2, with harder to kill buildings, no off-maps in HQ sectors (that one is fine being left out imo) and in some cases completely exaggerated base defenses (looking at you, okw and usf). It served its purpose in CoH1 mainly as a tool to quickly finish off weaker opponents and also as a way to break up the conventional 3 VP grind.

I have talked about this before, since I too realize that every game boils down to a fuel point grind or 3vp grind. That's why lelic needs to bring back manpower points, so that if someone camps fuel you can go for his manpower and starve his army.

That way, the game also becomes a battle of maneuvering and also discourages static defenses.

Offmaps on base sectors should be brought back, but only if you have full vision and keep it there for the duration of the ability. Through this you can decisively end the game if your opponent cannot even hold you out of his base.

They did not go for "muh esports"

lmao

Umm it is really hard to consider Coh2 in the realm of e-sport when it has such a ridiculous level of RNG.

For Coh3 to even be considered, it would need to reduce the randomness of the game considerably.

In my mind you have a few levels of RNG:

1) So little RNG that it becomes a boring spamfest.

2) Coh2 level of stupid RNG. It is fun to watch someone get totally screwed by RNG. But this level makes the game suck to actually play for many people. Especially when it comes to indirect fire and larger modes (the most popular).

3) Something in between 1 and 2 would be great. Enough RNG for some exciting things to happen.

Examples of 3 are:
- Your mortars cant hit shit but the enemy is erasing squads on the move with no FOV.
- Tanks shooting the ground 7 times in a row while enemies pen every shot with max damage.
- ALL Artillery in COH2 sucks major ass. Whoever wrote this code should die of anal polyps and burn in hell.

I have not really heard anyone here say what would help Coh3 be esports ready.

Removing base defenses sounds insanely bad to me. "Hey lets remove the only mechanic that lets players be more aggressive?"

Anything else?

I would agree with your (3).

I consider RNG to be a part of a good game since it levels out the playing field between a noob and a veteran and thus keeps the match interesting for both parties involved. And in this there is no better example than my other favorite game in the world, TF2. In this game, with random crits and the way hitboxes work (I am not advocating for random crits in COH3 if someone is retarded enough to understand as such) every player has a good chance against a more veteran player "that normally would not exist".

Does COH2 has shitty RNG? I am inclined to say no, no matter how many times I lost a 50/50 tank battle to a stupid roll. After all, the same also applies to any real world battle scenario. No rocket is "guaranteed" to hit a target, and no shell is "guaranteed" to wipe a squad. It just happens. RNG is a way to model this.

You are completely right that every major artillery piece in COH2 sucks because not only is it a huge investment for a static, 60sec reload, 8 shot firing piece but also because it is very very inaccurate. One would argue that having better vision of the targeted area is beneficial for the firing (I think they coded that in), but most of the times you won't have the resources nor the chance to sneak a Sniper/Recon there to help. Maybe support planes could work in tandem with a good teammate, but good luck finding that in random 2v2/3v3/4v4. And I am not aware of any doctrine in any faction that gives both a howitzer and spotter planes.

Anyone who thinks coh2 aimed for any form of esports at launch is actually insane.

-no decent replay system
-no good ladder system
-Rng base placements
-focus on "fun" over balance (this is not a bad thing inherently, just a balance to be struck.)
-the DLC commanders.

Like c'mon.

Do people realize that the tournaments are played on a community patch ? Like hello, at what point did lelic really pushed esports? Tbh if we have a little scene it's entirly due to passionate people like A_E. Other than that please, make coh3 have some monthly ladder.

Anyone who thinks coh2 aimed for any form of esports at launch is actually insane.

-no decent replay system
-no good ladder system
-Rng base placements
-focus on "fun" over balance (this is not a bad thing inherently, just a balance to be struck.)
-the DLC commanders.

Like c'mon.

You also forgot the Bugsplats!

Do people realize that the tournaments are played on a community patch ? Like hello, at what point did lelic really pushed esports? Tbh if we have a little scene it's entirly due to passionate people like A_E. Other than that please, make coh3 have some monthly ladder.

The facts speak for themselves imo. A_E has done some incredible work and i am glad he did!

If anything, base defenses need to be much better that they are in Coh2.

If Relic makes another base like the USF base we should all go there and smash their nuts with hammers. The USF base is ranked as the 27th stupidest thing humanity has ever created.

The thing I dislike/hate most about USF is the base. It is unfathomable how something so terrible could make it into the game. My favorite part is when you retreat and the unit gets stuck in the base somewhere and you have to move your units around to try to fix the unit that is stuck. Literal hot garbage.

IMO the worst part about the USF base is that it's just about the same size as the barrage area for OKW's Scavenge Doctrine artillery which for a certain period of time did not have a maximum to the number of shells; it increased to the theoretical maximum of 9,999 munitions.

A simple puma rush into the base and an ascetic adherence to the preservation of munitions led to annihilation losses especially in 1v1 where shouts of "you should be thankful you don't have to spend fuel to rebuild your base" were infinitely both confounding and enraging due to the conspicuous display of ignorance. To this day I am barely able to muster a brief chuckle as I relive the past horrors of this ignorance which, somehow, was worse than suffering a defeat from such a silly strategy.

It is unfathomable how something so terrible could make it into the game.

I did not even mention the fact that when you are making a map and rotate the pizza so the gun racks are in front, you run the risk of having 1 or more of the 4 entrances become unusable.

Or times in multiplayer where units in the base next to the USF pizza walk thru the center of the pizza to get to where they are going.

Relic should just talk to me before they do anything.

I would be like "Nah Bro. Nah. Just no. But, you know seriously.... no."