UKF solders. What do you think about?

I don't understand, why would you even consider getting Vickers K over Bren for a long range squad. It makes sense giving it to Officer, Raid Tommies and perhaps engies, but not for Regular Tommies.

Tightrope tried VGO IS in one of his FPV vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5TaZUPBCbc&t=3000s

That is not very accurate. Vickers K is still better than Enfield far and far better mid close. That enables Tommies to fight at all ranges. Will they beat LMG squad far range in cover to cover probably not but they can fight at all ranges.

Huh? I was saying that the Vickers K is not ideal on Tommies because their Lee Enfields are not designed for short distance fights, I never compared the Lee Enfield with the Vickers K. Of course the Vickers K is still a good choice when it's a CQC map, but other than that the bren is superior. This is the point I was trying to make: You don't want to give sections the vickers and charge in like riflemen if you don't have to

Well, it's mostly due to me liking the VGO by itself due to it's high ROF/beefy sound effect, but having your IS upgraded with 2xVK does eliminate their primary weakness of getting rushed by more CQC oriented squads like Fusiliers/MP40 volks/assgren etc.They'll lose in return long range against Obers/vetted LMG grens but mid range it's a very even fight, and you'll dominate both of these squads close range.

When I use the SWR commander I like to build 4xIS, and by the time I get the M3 halftrack I have like 170-250muni approximately in reserve to upgrade them with at about the 7-10minute mark depending on my CP situation.

They can go toe to toe with feuersturm MP40 volks/early pzgrens whilst beating them at mid-long range.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not gonna say that it is outright bad. I definitely can see the advantage, but only if you skip the weapon rack. Otherwise a vickers is almost 1.4 more expensive then a bren, while Brens have better synergy. Perhaps it is viable in 1v1, not gonna argue about that, since I don't play UKF in 1v1. Also, tightrope always tries something new and sometimes it sticks (like AssSection spam), but sometimes it does not, like countless other niche strats he tried.
But again, maybe this strat viable, but I lean towards "no" in a sweaty tryhard situation.

And yet here you are complaning about stats of inf. from the worst faction ATM?

They are the only base line inf. with NO AT nade. Use that fact wisely instead of jumping into tommies behind green cover.

This is not an argument, I gave the numbers as an argument, and you are complaining. If the British are weak, then the OKW is even worse, but for some reason, many noobs consider the OKW to be the strongest faction.

UKF infantry is good, but inadequate to carry the faction.

UKF is pretty much a meme at this point and a bad one at that. Idiotic teching, the emplacements have been nerfed. It's quite literally unplayable.

You need to spend 250mp and 50fuel (iirc) to have a fifth man, and 90muni in order to have decent firepower. AEC is way too underwhelming to take it seriously, and you can only play that faction if and only if you have 3 specific commanders to support you. Also, good luck playing with no snares on mainline infantry.

Cromwell? Pff, the other guys have Panzer IVs. Centaur AA? Good if the enemy blobs, shit in every other scenario. Churchill? Kinda nice, but way too costly for what it gives.

You are left with only Firefly which is excellent and Comet which is also excellent. If you go Royal Engies and get the British Sturmtiger it's nice.

TLDR; UKF infantry is fine, but the faction in general is in disarray.

Cromwell is quite good, especially since it is cheaper. Whining about a centaur that destroys anti-tank guns head-on is not even serious. The OKW has only kubels and folks at the start, which are worse than any infantry except recruits (and this is debatable, since recruits have a lot of useful abilities).

Huh? I was saying that the Vickers K is not ideal on Tommies because their Lee Enfields are not designed for short distance fights, I never compared the Lee Enfield with the Vickers K. Of course the Vickers K is still a good choice when it's a CQC map, but other than that the bren is superior. This is the point I was trying to make: You don't want to give sections the vickers and charge in like riflemen if you don't have to

Vickers K cover the weakness IS have:
DPS on mid/close
DPS on the move

Regardless what an infatry section user wants he will probably be unable to keep enemy infatry at the long distance where Bren is better.

Bren is superior only at static long range fights at range above 21-23.

Their vet upgrades suck.

What's wrong with bonuses?

1. increases sight range in cover (+10)

2.received accuracy decreases

3. increases accuracy
decreases weapon cooldown

What's wrong with bonuses?

1. increases sight range in cover (+10)

2.received accuracy decreases

3. increases accuracy
decreases weapon cooldown

Because of their high base stats the get lower vet bonus values.

This is the problem imo. You need to invest so much just to get them to a state close to Grens with LMGs or Volks. You need bolster, you need to tech grenades and weapon racks. And the Wehr player? Well, he has to press lmb once and invest 60 ammo and is just as competitive as you with your enormous investment. Additionally, he gets rifle nades for free and has a Pfaust, which Tommies don't have at all.

What should be invested? And you are aware that in order to issue an LMG, you also need to pump out the technology. Imagine, but the Germans also need to spend resources! Incredible!
Folks and Grenadiers are weaker than Tommy, why does Tommy get worse in order to get closer to such an "ideal"?

Problem with UKF is they're the only faction starting with a mainline for free. When Relic decided to put Royal Engineers in T1, they should just have swapped them wit RE. Therefore Brits would start with a pioneer squad just like all other factions do. But they missed the chance to balance this. So we have Tommy blobs for many years now...

But Tommies themselves are not OP. As Ost, you have PGrens, as OKW Obers. Just build them and you shred Tommies.

I think it is incorrect to compare the German elite infantry with Tommy, Tommy should be compared with Volks and Grenadiers. I can also compare Vokls with commandos or with Soviet shockers.
I didn't say that I don't know how to play against the British, I say that the German starting infantry is weaker than the Allied starting infantry.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not gonna say that it is outright bad. I definitely can see the advantage, but only if you skip the weapon rack. Otherwise a vickers is almost 1.4 more expensive then a bren, while Brens have better synergy. Perhaps it is viable in 1v1, not gonna argue about that, since I don't play UKF in 1v1. Also, tightrope always tries something new and sometimes it sticks (like AssSection spam), but sometimes it does not, like countless other niche strats he tried.
But again, maybe this strat viable, but I lean towards "no" in a sweaty tryhard situation.

95% of my matches are with my premade 3v3 team, so theres plenty of open maps like Rzhev,Hill 400 etc and they still have done pretty well for the last 15 or so matches I have played with them(floating around rank 200).

Whilst you skip the 35fuel weapon rack upgrade because you don't need weapon racks teched anymore for the M3 HT to drop Vickers guns, the M3 HT in of itself still costs about 30 fuel.

But being also a mobile healing and reinforce point at that, you can also just garrison two fully upgraded IS sections inside it, meaning 4 Vickers LMG and one Lee-enfield shooting out of it, using that you can bully isolated mainline inf squads without having to worry about being snared because if he hangs around long enough to snare you, you'll be able to wipe his squad because you drove up to him to point blank range.

Or you can just drive right past setup MGs and force them to retreat easily, wouldn't recommend using this tactic past the 10 minute mark though because of the prevalence of double ATG at that stage.

Also I don't tech grenades for IS so I'll have plenty of ammo to spend on them once the M3 arrives and I usually upgrade medic package only once or twice until late game.

Because of their high base stats the get lower vet bonus values.

What does get lower mean? Lower than what? I provided evasion rates, they are better than their counterparts. It would be strange if Tommy's bonuses were even better.

This is the problem imo. You need to invest so much just to get them to a state close to Grens with LMGs or Volks. You need bolster, you need to tech grenades and weapon racks. And the Wehr player? Well, he has to press lmb once and invest 60 ammo and is just as competitive as you with your enormous investment. Additionally, he gets rifle nades for free and has a Pfaust, which Tommies don't have at all.

Because anti-tank grenades are not needed by Tommy, the British sappers have them! British engineers are not at war with useless firecrackers like the German ones.
Yeah, yes, of course, but the technology of the British gives them not only these amenities. I am silent about the cost of the Bofors, which is cheaper than SDKFZ with Flak-38.

What does get lower mean? Lower than what? I provided evasion rates, they are better than their counterparts. It would be strange if Tommy's bonuses were even better.

As an example:
IS start with target size of 0.85 and get a received accuracy bonus of 0.78 ending up with 0.66

Riflemen start with target size of 0.97 and get a received accuracy bonus of 0.77 and 0.85 ending up with 0.63.

IS start much better but end up slightly worse, thus they have better base stats but get worse vet bonuses to compensate.

The initial post leaves out the squad HP. Volks as a squad have more HP even considering their higher RA until Sections bolster.

Anyway, this threads will probably come down to the generally shitty UKF design. The lack of any versatile artillery (mortar early and rocket late game) or aggressive light vehicle as well as the need to stick to cover pushes UKF into the defensive until the Cromwell comes out.

Mostly the lack of arty forced some UKF units to be stupidly overpowered if compared 1 by 1 vs their counterparts.

And yet here you are complaning about stats of inf. from the worst faction ATM?

They are the only base line inf. with NO AT nade. Use that fact wisely instead of jumping into tommies behind green cover.

they aren't the worst in non-1v1 modes and are the most noob-friendly

Tommies used to be a good infantry unit until like 3 years back when they got beaten silly with the nerf hammer. They've only gotten progressively worse as the faction as a whole got deliberately nerfed into the ground.

In the past it was important for Infantry Sections to be good because UKF had no other long range oriented infantry units to rely on.

What's happened to Infantry Sections since I've started playing circa 2017:

- Long range damage was nerfed

- Brens were nerfed

- Bolster was put behind T2 (without it's high price even being adjusted)

When they nefed the unit repeatedly into the ground the only things that got adjusted was a slight manpower cost reduction from 280 to 270 (almost nothing) and I guess Brens went from 60 munitions to 45. Problem is Brens were worth 60 munitions before the nerf but weren't worth 45 after.

Most people openly admit they nerfed Brits not really for balance reasons but simply because Axis mains just didn't like playing against them.

The only Brit unit I can think of they didn't nerf to hell and actually gave any significant buffs to was the Comet.

It is worth mentioning though they did introduce new Brit infantry over the last few years that wasn't around when Tommies were good, like Assault Sections which are decent, and the Air Assault Officer which was a great idea (one I'd thought of too actually before it was implemented). And now we have Raid Sections but I haven't found any use for them as they seem to be just slightly worse Infantry Sections.

Personally I think they either need to move bolster back to a T0 upgrade or reduce it's fuel cost by 20 if it's going to stay a T2 upgrade because with Tommies being double/triple nerfed it's a required upgrade to keep them competent mid and late game.

they aren't the worst in non-1v1 modes and are the most noob-friendly

Please enligthen me on what faction is worse than UKF on what mode. Because TBH I can't really figure that out myself.

And what does noob-friendlt has to do with anything?
Before that, who on the right mind suggest to play UKF for beginners when there is a Soviet / OKW? - or WM if one wants to learn to use mg & pak.

The fun fact of UKF: You get to have higher rank by just not playing it!
I played one game on UKF just because my rank got removed, got 24th.
After two days, I'm on 20!

This is the reality of the UKF for these days.

Tommies used to be a good infantry unit until like 3 years back when they got beaten silly with the nerf hammer. They've only gotten progressively worse as the faction as a whole got deliberately nerfed into the ground.

In the past it was important for Infantry Sections to be good because UKF had no other long range oriented infantry units to rely on.

What's happened to Infantry Sections since I've started playing circa 2017:

- Long range damage was nerfed

- Brens were nerfed

- Bolster was put behind T2 (without it's high price even being adjusted)

When they nefed the unit repeatedly into the ground the only things that got adjusted was a slight manpower cost reduction from 280 to 270 (almost nothing) and I guess Brens went from 60 munitions to 45. Problem is Brens were worth 60 munitions before the nerf but weren't worth 45 after.

Most people openly admit they nerfed Brits not really for balance reasons but simply because Axis mains just didn't like playing against them.

The only Brit unit I can think of they didn't nerf to hell and actually gave any significant buffs to was the Comet.

It is worth mentioning though they did introduce new Brit infantry over the last few years that wasn't around when Tommies were good, like Assault Sections which are decent, and the Air Assault Officer which was a great idea (one I'd thought of too actually before it was implemented). And now we have Raid Sections but I haven't found any use for them as they seem to be just slightly worse Infantry Sections.

Personally I think they either need to move bolster back to a T0 upgrade or reduce it's fuel cost by 20 if it's going to stay a T2 upgrade because with Tommies being double/triple nerfed it's a required upgrade to keep them competent mid and late game.

Any sane person who plays the game at any competent level hated playing either as or against old Brits because the design was incredibly broken and frustrating. Brits had ridiculously OP auto-win infantry but the faction design was so idiotic that you would then lose the moment light and medium vehicles came out. No flamers no smoke no mortars no cqc units no snares with OP mainline and call-ins and cancer emplacements was literally the 2017 design that every sane person hated and wanted fixed, but Relic kept limiting the scope of what could be changed about Brits. It's braindead fools like you who refuse to admit that the game and factions are much better today than they ever were. Bullshit OP units got reined in, and if the sacrifice is simply a few Brit mains I'm more than happy to trade that in.

Tommies weren't good in the past. They were god-tier infantry who had 1.25 capture rate for no particular reason, sandbagged every point, had bonus sight, became a 4 min mark 5-man mainline with 16 damage rifles, the fastest fire rate and reload as well as highest accuracy as well as smallest target size and on-field healing while weirdly costing less to reinforce than grens. They were so ridiculously OP that even you could win infantry engagements. And honestly after all the nerfs, they still trade decently vs Volks pre-stg and can beat grenadiers at long and mid range. You obviously wouldn't feel it since you keep your units in red cover for 5 to 10 seconds every engagement (based on our past playing interactions).

Brits as a badly-designed faction is Relic's fault. The balance team tried their best to patch together a workable faction, and the game state of Brits today is far better than it used to be. Better for Brits to be the 47% win rate faction they are today than the unplayable mess it was that only you enjoyed.

A reduction in bolster fuel cost would be reasonable actually. But without a JLI nerf Brits are going to have a hard time competing regardless.