Has anyone noticed Grenadiers are really good?

Don’t VGren have to deal with the same thing yet get their snares much later. Also wasn’t originally because Grens were built from base and T1 was needed for MG? So locking snare to T1 used to mean something.

OKW has a t0 at gun to help. Still, they can get abused hard as fuck by clowncars until they can get fausts because building a rak that early is pretty dicey. Lone OKW squads with m3s around have a huge chance of getting run off the field.

edit : also forgot to mention that their Sturm pios first shrek can come @ the same time as first CE flamer timing so the m3 issue was further mitigated

OKW has a t0 at gun to help. Still, they can get abused hard as fuck by clowncars until they can get fausts because building a rak that early is pretty dicey. Lone OKW squads with m3s around have a huge chance of getting run off the field.

Your right, OKW can get bullied pretty bad but it does allow an early 15 fuel unit to have some use. Against OST, clown car is mostly pointless despite recent nerfs making Faust a little redundant. Since clown car had its armor reduced a properly supported MG with focused fire can chase off a car if not outright destroy it. Same with UC.

Also not trying to pick a fight but you also said grens are locked behind 80mp building. Penals are locked behind 160mp building, start off reasonably stronger but cost 290mp and lose once vet and LMG are unlocked. So that reasoning doesn’t hold up to well. Pretty much that efficiency in a mainline unit can shut down 2 out of 3 units in a tech tier.

While I do think grens are to cheap for what they cost I think the real culprit is those goddamn conscripts. They got overbuffed and pretty much make even Soviet elite units kind of redundant.

many people ignore the fact that ostheer has to pay 80mp out of the gate to get to grens. i imagine it's probably pretty easy to when you never play the faction

Hum... Are you aware Ostheer start with 80 manpower more than other factions?

Hum... Are you aware Ostheer start with 80 manpower more than other factions?

It's called we do a little trolling.

Hum... Are you aware Ostheer start with 80 manpower more than other factions?

Are you aware that this isn't the case?

OST: 420
OKW: 320 -> starts with 300mp squad
SOV: 390
USF: 400
UKF: 340 -> starts with 270mp squad

You goddamned noob. 😂 Go back to the drawing board.

It's called we do a little trolling.

What the fuck? Maybe learn the game instead of snickering over bullshit.

Your right, OKW can get bullied pretty bad but it does allow an early 15 fuel unit to have some use. Against OST, clown car is mostly pointless despite recent nerfs making Faust a little redundant. Since clown car had its armor reduced a properly supported MG with focused fire can chase off a car if not outright destroy it. Same with UC.

Also not trying to pick a fight but you also said grens are locked behind 80mp building. Penals are locked behind 160mp building, start off reasonably stronger but cost 290mp and lose once vet and LMG are unlocked. So that reasoning doesn’t hold up to well. Pretty much that efficiency in a mainline unit can shut down 2 out of 3 units in a tech tier.

While I do think grens are to cheap for what they cost I think the real culprit is those goddamn conscripts. They got overbuffed and pretty much make even Soviet elite units kind of redundant.

This is true that m3s are kind of not great against ost (because of faust). Soviets do at least have the option of 240mp cons right out of HQ against ostheer and sacrifice a lot of map control going penals. Just building the building (time not capping), paying for it, more expensive squads. Against OST I guess it's just safer to go cons into guards with t-2. I'm not great with soviet play though so I cannot really say.

many people ignore the fact that ostheer has to pay 80mp out of the gate to get to grens. i imagine it's probably pretty easy to when you never play the faction

obviously a wallet wrecking expense of a whole eighty manpower, worth an entire german panzer army in manpower

What the fuck? Maybe learn the game instead of snickering over bullshit.

Cry about it.

Playercard.

Yeah no wonder Katukov pisses you off so much considering the last time you played Allies was 3 weeks ago on your playercard, had to go look it up on a proper site like coh2stats.com.
If Grens get snares for LVs to not rape them, why isn't that the case for IS?
I can hear some arbitrary arguments coming my way about them somehow needing that to stay balanced.

I'd appreciate it if you give a disclaimer that you're a axis fanboy yourself before you call Katukov a allied one

Yeah no wonder Katukov pisses you off so much considering the last time you played Allies was 3 weeks ago on your playercard, had to go look it up on a proper site like coh2stats.com.
If Grens get snares for LVs to not rape them, why isn't that the case for IS?
I can hear some arbitrary arguments coming my way about them somehow needing that to stay balanced.

I'd appreciate it if you give a disclaimer that you're a axis fanboy yourself before you call Katukov a allied one

Pisses me off is a little strong. I don't really care about you scrubs. But I do care about the game, you just won't see me here whinging about how everything on one side is bad.

Regardless, I leave my playercard out (unlike you) I play what I play and you're not really part of the equation. So I don't really give a shit what you appreciate or not. And chances are, even if it has been three weeks, I'm probably still not as bad as you are.

Me pointing out that ostheer have to pay 80mp isn't saying it's expensive. It's me saying, um, shit, they have to pay for a building and use a unit to build it instead of cap, unlike every other faction that can build a mainline out of their HQ.

And since you still don't get the basic shit, IS don't have to fight bren carriers or m3s. Beyond that UKF is broke as fuck and have been since they got dumped on the game so trying to find answers from me isn't something we should waste our time with, because no one has ever gotten it.

Pisses me off is a little strong. I don't really care about you scrubs. But I do care about the game, you just won't see me here whinging about how everything on one side is bad.

Regardless, I leave my playercard out (unlike you) I play what I play and you're not really part of the equation. So I don't really give a shit what you appreciate or not. And chances are, even if it has been three weeks, I'm probably still not as bad as you are.

Me pointing out that ostheer have to pay 80mp isn't saying it's expensive. It's me saying, um, shit, they have to pay for a building and use a unit to build it instead of cap, unlike every other faction that can build a mainline out of their HQ.

And since you still don't get the basic shit, IS don't have to fight bren carriers or m3s. Beyond that UKF is broke as fuck and have been since they got dumped on the game so trying to find answers from me isn't something we should waste our time with, because no one has ever gotten it.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you call someone a scrub whilst maining axis.You care about the game being twisted to your liking, yes.LMFAO first you don't care about my own playercard now you try and mock me for not bothering to post it in my reply as a result.

I would love to see OST have Grens and MG42 in T0, no questions asked.As it stands right now it's literally a negligible faction difference for OST to need to build a tech structure for their mainlines, meanwhile even going with a T1 start halves your chance of winning a game.

"And since you still don't get the basic shit, IS don't have to fight bren carriers or m3s."
I have 3k hours playing since 2017, but whatver guess you're right.UKF don't actually have to fight bren carriers/m3s(vehicles that become borderline useless past the 7 minute mark due to their extreme fragility), they have to fight doctrinal 250 halftracks with flamepios/panzergren, 221/223, 222s that can harrass your inf for a couple of minutes, if they're lucky get some vet and then with the right commander spot half the map.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you call someone a scrub whilst maining axis.You care about the game being twisted to your liking, yes.LMFAO first you don't care about my own playercard now you try and mock me for not bothering to post it in my reply as a result.

I would love to see OST have Grens and MG42 in T0, no questions asked.As it stands right now it's literally a negligible faction difference for OST to need to build a tech structure for their mainlines, meanwhile even going with a T1 start halves your chance of winning a game.

"And since you still don't get the basic shit, IS don't have to fight bren carriers or m3s."
I have 3k hours playing since 2017, but whatver guess you're right.UKF don't actually have to fight bren carriers/m3s(vehicles that become borderline useless past the 7 minute mark due to their extreme fragility), they have to fight doctrinal 250 halftracks with flamepios/panzergren, 221/223, 222s that can harrass your inf for a couple of minutes, if they're lucky get some vet and then with the right commander spot half the map.

Just calling you a scrub because that's what you are, which is what happens when you put 3k hours into something and you still wind up bad. I guess that's funny? I think it's more sad that you think you're better than you actually are.

And no, I really don't give a shit about your card. People who like you who say the amount of dumb shit that you do are just bad, I don't need a profile to give me proof.

I'll acknowledge that I don't have enough experience with all factions to give sound and fullproof balance tweaks. So I generally don't. My main point was people saying grens cost 240 mp. Yes, this is mostly true. They do however pay a small gate fee, whatever the cost. This pretty much guarantees that everyone else can get in position before they do. Saying they're the "best mainline" (not saying you did) is debatable at best, because even at vet 3 they still can't take as many bullets as other vet 3 mainlines. Watching all these pathfinder builds running into the same problem as old vet 3 grens : they're a four man squad that gets squishy as fuck late game so they inevitably start disappearing.

More grens are appearing because of mass amounts of pathfinders. Why build an mg that will never get a chance to shoot? Just build more grens.

If you really want to not be a scrub, donate. Or not be a retarded fanboi with shit memes. Either one works.

Directly comparing mainline infantry is useless. In context grens are probably the easiest mainline inf to use. But it's not like Rifles or Cons can't be used to great effect. And once your opponent knows what he's doing with Rifles and Cons LMG Grens suddenly feel a lot weaker. I would say in a game where both sides play sloppily (aka 99.9 percent of games played) LMG grens are superior cuz they don't require much decision making. Playing them is basically purely reactive. You attack move. If your opponent doesn't close in you just keep attack moving. If he does close in you retreat once he's close.

Playing Cons on the other hand requires clever stalling (spam sandbags at every opportunity) and maximum usage of utility like merge and trip wires.

Playing Rifles is even more difficult as they tend to bleed a lot. There's barely any player actively playing US who knows how to do clean and reliable rifle play (Inca probably being the only one coming close). This is because most top players neglect US and US specialists like Dave and DevM have left the game. Anyone who has been demolished by Dave should know Rifle's true potential in wrecking Grens imo. As of right now most high level US players seem to rely on knock out pushes that can be countered by appropriate reaction from the axis player.

Directly comparing mainline infantry is useless. In context grens are probably the easiest mainline inf to use. But it's not like Rifles or Cons can't be used to great effect. And once your opponent knows what he's doing with Rifles and Cons LMG Grens suddenly feel a lot weaker. I would say in a game where both sides play sloppily (aka 99.9 percent of games played) LMG grens are superior cuz they don't require much decision making. Playing them is basically purely reactive. You attack move. If your opponent doesn't close in you just keep attack moving. If he does close in you retreat once he's close.

Playing Cons on the other hand requires clever stalling (spam sandbags at every opportunity) and maximum usage of utility like merge and trip wires.

Playing Rifles is even more difficult as they tend to bleed a lot. There's barely any player actively playing US who knows how to do clean and reliable rifle play (Inca probably being the only one coming close). This is because most top players neglect US and US specialists like Dave and DevM have left the game. Anyone who has been demolished by Dave should know Rifle's true potential in wrecking Grens imo. As of right now most high level US players seem to rely on knock out pushes that can be countered by appropriate reaction from the axis player.

This is all true

Directly comparing mainline infantry is useless. In context grens are probably the easiest mainline inf to use. But it's not like Rifles or Cons can't be used to great effect. And once your opponent knows what he's doing with Rifles and Cons LMG Grens suddenly feel a lot weaker. I would say in a game where both sides play sloppily (aka 99.9 percent of games played) LMG grens are superior cuz they don't require much decision making. Playing them is basically purely reactive. You attack move. If your opponent doesn't close in you just keep attack moving. If he does close in you retreat once he's close.

Playing Cons on the other hand requires clever stalling (spam sandbags at every opportunity) and maximum usage of utility like merge and trip wires.

Playing Rifles is even more difficult as they tend to bleed a lot. There's barely any player actively playing US who knows how to do clean and reliable rifle play (Inca probably being the only one coming close). This is because most top players neglect US and US specialists like Dave and DevM have left the game. Anyone who has been demolished by Dave should know Rifle's true potential in wrecking Grens imo. As of right now most high level US players seem to rely on knock out pushes that can be countered by appropriate reaction from the axis player.

Rifles take a big turd atop of grens, volks and fussies. The only problem is, most 3v3+ (and plenty of 2v2) maps don't really have proper sight blockers for the rifles to close in. It's mostly medium-long range cover to cover fighting, where volks and grens will win. And once the lategame comes, sight blockers get torn down and it's basically obers/grens/fussies blobs that dominate the field. BAR rifles are great close-medium range, but truth be told, you won't have a lot of close-mid range firefights that last longer than 1 second, come late-game.
Another thing is, USF doesn't have a brummbar or anything like that that can put a ton of hurt on blobs, safely. Against soviets, it's tricky to blob, as you can get wrecked by a good katy barrage. Vs USF and UKF, you can easily; especially since the calliope nerf which put the final nail in the coffin (extremely risky to use) of that commander. Now everyone plays airborne, which can give you that long range firepower + (a big plus) sight to spot those wide-ass-arc MG42/34s, which, on most maps, can lock down entire sectors.

Grens definitely do not deserve a nerf, but rifles should get a bit more DPS on medium range (just medium). Brits, I won't comment as the majorly-major majority of teamgame brit players are worse than a retarded headless chicken that got fu**ed by a big black cock. Soviet cons are pretty much perfect (also, majority of soviet teammode players that go for penal builds are extremely bad and inefficient, seldom are players that can pull off a penal start in 3v3+)

...Against soviets, it's tricky to blob, as you can get wrecked by a good katy barrage. Vs USF and UKF, you can easily; especially since the calliope nerf which put the final nail in the coffin (extremely risky to use) of that commander. Now everyone plays airborne, which can give you that long range firepower + (a big plus) sight to spot those wide-ass-arc MG42/34s, which, on most maps, can lock down entire sectors.

...

Are you claiming that Calliope commanders are "dead" and no one uses them?
Do you have anything to back that claim?

Why in your opinion is the Calliope the most durable rocket launcher "extremely risky to use"?

What does that have to do with Grenadiers?

I have noticed that most Ost players are using grens much more now.

Placebo Effect.

Grens need a slight price increase. At least 250mp. They're really strong and already have the best snare and none doctrine grenades and LMGs. This is ignoring the fact they already have the best early game none-doc team weapons. That's too many advantages for one faction.

So for a mainline to have all the necessary tools to deal with small arms fire is "too advantageous"?

And this is somehow a crippling flaw of grens/OST?

You have the best support weapon right out of the gate, it makes sense for your mainline infantry to be delayed/more expensive at a upfront cost(which they aren't, that's why 4 gren builds are so common).

For only 80mp, you don't only get grens but also a sniper that is a pain in the ass to deal with for 2/3 factions of the allies, and the best stock mortar all in the same building.And it's not uncommon to see OST have 3-5 support weapons in the last couple of tournament matches I have watched.

You and the other troll who I won't name are literally grasping at straws, as Katukov said, it IS a nonsense talking point to say "hurrr you have to b-build a 80mp tech structure to get the strongest mainline inf in the game!!"

Snipers have been nerfed to shit, argument rejected.

SOV need to pay 150mp + fuel to gain snares, so that means that cons should get free snares? Lmao right.
SOV can reinforce on the field for free with merge (I am leaving out Shock troops which are not good for reinforcing through merge), so that means that OST should get free reinforcing too?
SOV have an ATG that can act as a mini mortar, does that mean OST should have that too?
SOV have the T70 which instawipes 8/10 squads it hits on green cover. What do OST have for that? A Pak maybe? That gets raped by an CE squad?
SOV have the earliest medium timing of all, does that mean that OST should get PZIV reduced to match that?
...

Point being, stop being mentally retarded when it comes to game design choices. SOV vs OST is the perfect matchup and destroying that would ruin COH2 (if it's not completely ruined). Stop coping, L2P or stop COH2.

Don’t VGren have to deal with the same thing yet get their snares much later. Also wasn’t originally because Grens were built from base and T1 was needed for MG? So locking snare to T1 used to mean something.

That happened maybe in 2014. After that, Grens got snares because every opposing factions had ready LVs to harass them.