The state of Sturmtiger

New Battlegrounds Semi Finals. IncaUna vs Kimbo

New Battlegrounds Semi Finals. IncaUna vs Kimbo

I agree its to strong but that last battle in no way makes a good case. Inca picked Rifle company, right when he picked that at around 11-12 minutes I knew he was gonna lose. Most of that company is made redundant by the Sturmtiger and he has nothing to force the enemy to him. I feel like that game highlighted how mediocre the E8 and Rifle company is.
Mines/fighting position is useless against sturmtiger since it can destroy one easily and mines wont be placed on his side late game due to fear of wipes. Never made halftrack which shows how pointless it is and The E8 has to get within range of Sturm to fight, and for the people who say use focus gunnery he didn't use it from what I saw.

Speaking about the Sturm it looks like if it had to stay still to reload this game would have been over pretty quickly. Inca seemed to be vastly better in that last game.

I agree its to strong but that last battle in no way makes a good case. Inca picked Rifle company, right when he picked that at around 11-12 minutes I knew he was gonna lose. Most of that company is made redundant by the Sturmtiger and he has nothing to force the enemy to him. I feel like that game highlighted how mediocre the E8 and Rifle company is.
Mines/fighting position is useless against sturmtiger since it can destroy one easily and mines wont be placed on his side late game due to fear of wipes. Never made halftrack which shows how pointless it is and The E8 has to get within range of Sturm to fight, and for the people who say use focus gunnery he didn't use it from what I saw.

Speaking about the Sturm it looks like if it had to stay still to reload this game would have been over pretty quickly. Inca seemed to be vastly better in that last game.

Focused gunnery is as useful as a screen door on a submarine. It was a gimmick buff so that the balance team could say "hey, we buffed the E8, are you not entertained?!"
If they added the mortar halftrack into the Rifle company and buffed the E8 armour to 230 (about 50% chance at medium range for stock mediums to pen), increased MG power a bit and increased the price a bit, then it could have been a bit retarded premium medium worth the price and in a good commander. The M5 HT is as useful as a condom in the Vatican.

I agree its to strong but that last battle in no way makes a good case. Inca picked Rifle company, right when he picked that at around 11-12 minutes I knew he was gonna lose. Most of that company is made redundant by the Sturmtiger and he has nothing to force the enemy to him. I feel like that game highlighted how mediocre the E8 and Rifle company is.
Mines/fighting position is useless against sturmtiger since it can destroy one easily and mines wont be placed on his side late game due to fear of wipes. Never made halftrack which shows how pointless it is and The E8 has to get within range of Sturm to fight, and for the people who say use focus gunnery he didn't use it from what I saw.

He picked the best flanking tank. Higher health them M4C, versatile and with pretty good penetration for a medium. Seems like it was calculated decision. Personally I have no idea what commander could have done better job. Maybe Urban with zook rangers and smoke/sprint? Still imo ST won the game.

Also couple commets behind I posted a cast of Jibber vs top 50 OKW and in that match ST got 80 kills.

He picked the best flanking tank. Higher health them M4C, versatile and with pretty good penetration for a medium. Seems like it was calculated decision. Personally I have no idea what commander could have done better job. Maybe Urban with zook rangers and smoke/sprint? Still imo ST won the game.

Also couple commets behind I posted a cast of Jibber vs top 50 OKW and in that match ST got 80 kills.

I must've missed that one, I will check it out.

Back to the E8, I thought it was supposed to be used more as a brawler not flanker. He never really flanked with it due to how cumbersome pathfinding is and the map itself has a lot of shotblockers that seem indestructible. Flanking in this game was not really an option, the announcers even said to start the match it would be a bad choice. Like I originally said, he had nothing to force Kimbo to push instead of play defensively with Sturm. That is what make is so OP, Kimbo played horribly with Sturm compared to Inca in the beggining however Inca's supposed flanking tank could not push due to Rak/potential snare/map design. Even when he did catch him he had to reverse since it has similar range. Watching him play, I think Inca would have demolished him with Cali and Jackson, the Sturm would have been forced to push or risk wipe after wipe from Cali barrage.

Edit: Does E8 have heavy crush? If not the bulldozer sherman would have done better moving back and forth.
Edit2: Just saw parts of the game skipped around. Holy Shit, how can it be Ok that Sturmtiger is available before Heavies are. Aside from being fairly cheap for what you get, it should at least come at CP10. It does not fear AT guns.

I think a unit with that wipe capability should not be able to shoot from outside of the standard sight range.

What could also be done is to alter the survivability. At vet, the ST becomes one of the most durable units in the game, similar to the Churchill. With the big difference that all your ATGs are probably running if you see the ST approaching and that you barely can close in with infantry for a snare. Maybe removing the veterancy armor would go a long way to make ATGs more reliable at least on the first 1-2 shots that they can do before retreating, which could at least allow for a snare.

Third option: Damage decrease to 400 and buffing the AoE accordingly to stay the same against infantry. This will allow mediums and other 640 HP vehicles to be more aggressive towards the ST. Currently they have to fear being hit by the rocket and finished off by a snare or ATG. 400 damage would allow to take the rocket AND an additional ATG shot. This would also make it more unattractive for the ST to fire at vehicles and reinforce the role as an AI unit.

Another thing is that it comes way too soon and needs to be pushed back.

It should also be immobile when reloading, the crew literally opens the hatch and loads the rockets with the attached crane.


That way it's counterable with AT off maps and on-field artillery if poorly positioned. Seems totally fair to me.

It should also be immobile when reloading, the crew literally opens the hatch and loads the rockets with the attached crane.


That way it's counterable with AT off maps and on-field artillery if poorly positioned. Seems totally fair to me.

this!

Few points:
Apart from collision inconsistency, the decrew mechanic was removed. So its ridiculous veterancy now only removed with the tank itself. This made a) more convenient to use and reload whenever you want b) removed the ST sharing/multiplying exploit.

While AVRE is more flexible ST is able to fire from the fog of war and with vet it selfspots and shoots from 45 range.

Yes, AVRE gets a lot of armor, but ST gets some armor with vet as well as health. 1440 health and 242 frontal armor is nothing to sneeze at. But imo unit like panther helps a lot with dealing with such unit.
Also lets not forget that UKF is a awkward faction.

While the projectile became slower the delay between shooting command and impact is almost the same. Used to be 1s for shell to hit 40m and 3s delay. Now it is 1.6s for shell to hit 40m and 2.5s delay. So 4 vs 4.1s. I agree that Shell speed is important, but if you screwed with detecting prepatched ST you almost certainly done (shell could collide), not you can sort of react, but again, if you screwed with detecting new ST, you still are certainly done.

As an anecdotal example Duffmann used to spam this doctrine a lot before the commander patch. He used ST, but never liked it. Now he think it is way too good. Same with Siberian, Jibber, BaoLiang, Elpern. Although I can't provide any evidence they said it. + we have ridiculous pickrate of the commander. Pretty much if you are not a SOV without a "Mark Target" you gonna have a big problem.

Here are my words that sums up my opinion about nuking units:

More of a learn to adapt issue . For a very long time the cookie cutter build to the okw was to setup an AT-gun line and then smash the okw infantry with superior allied arty. You get introduced to one unit that can tear apart an at gun reliably, and suddenly it's a problem? as you said yourself soviets have mark targets the other allied factions have their own Anti heavy tank doctrines . Perhaps they should use fewer calliopes and land mattresses

More of a learn to adapt issue . For a very long time the cookie cutter build to the okw was to setup an AT-gun line and then smash the okw infantry with superior allied arty. You get introduced to one unit that can tear apart an at gun reliably, and suddenly it's a problem? as you said yourself soviets have mark targets the other allied factions have their own Anti heavy tank doctrines . Perhaps they should use fewer calliopes and land mattresses

If all the player adapted in the past, whe woudnt have neutered mines with models capped at 2, demo still viable, soviets would still have presicion strikes. But it doesnt work that way unfortunatly if its to easy to get to easy to use. The ST needs a nerf 100% its to good atm.

And this is the problem with like half the playerbase. Anytime someone says something is OP, a bunch of people come whining about the closest thing on the opposing side they can think of

One of my teammates complained about ST in chat yesterday. The guy who was using it said "just get AVRE". Our team had 2 soviet players and 1 USF. Critical thinking skills 10/10

Like maybe the AVRE is dumb too? I wouldn't know, since I literally never see it or use it

It moves too slow, doesn't seem to bounce much, and the turret often causes more problem than it's worth. The range is short so everything sees it and can move out of the way. It didn't shoot through sight blockers the last time I used it. You'd have to get really creative with smoke and other units to get it even somewhat usable. Even then, it seems like your micro and resources would be better spent on just about anything else.

More of a learn to adapt issue . For a very long time the cookie cutter build to the okw was to setup an AT-gun line and then smash the okw infantry with superior allied arty. You get introduced to one unit that can tear apart an at gun reliably, and suddenly it's a problem? as you said yourself soviets have mark targets the other allied factions have their own Anti heavy tank doctrines . Perhaps they should use fewer calliopes and land mattresses

I'm like 25 games deep with Sturmtiger and I haven't seen a single guy who could reliably counter it and in some cases it straight up won games for me, because it wrecks everything, not only AT guns. Perhaps you can show us several replays with detailed instruction how to kill it. And if you think that there is anything that kills support weapons as reliably as ST, I don't believe you. Shotgun Katy and calioppe do not count, since they have miniscule amount of health so are prone to flanks.
But good luck flanking ST. By the time you kill it, your tanks will brake their guns smacking that fat ass lmao. Pretty much you need to screw up big time to lose that behemoth.

You get introduced to one unit that can tear apart an at gun reliably, and suddenly it's a problem?

Yes it is when it does not have counter.

I agree its to strong but that last battle in no way makes a good case. Inca picked Rifle company, right when he picked that at around 11-12 minutes I knew he was gonna lose. Most of that company is made redundant by the Sturmtiger and he has nothing to force the enemy to him. I feel like that game highlighted how mediocre the E8 and Rifle company is.
Mines/fighting position is useless against sturmtiger since it can destroy one easily and mines wont be placed on his side late game due to fear of wipes. Never made halftrack which shows how pointless it is and The E8 has to get within range of Sturm to fight, and for the people who say use focus gunnery he didn't use it from what I saw.

Speaking about the Sturm it looks like if it had to stay still to reload this game would have been over pretty quickly. Inca seemed to be vastly better in that last game.

Inca´s loss can be solely attributed to a VERY bad push where he lost all his armour to pupchens for the most part. If he used his flares properly before the push he would not have driven his e8 straight into them-

Yes it is when it does not have counter.

Regular allied TD´s are the counter and good scouting

Regular allied TD´s are the counter and good scouting

It literally has hp of 2 medium tank, and it can shoot & get back with back up of 2 racket behind. TD will just gonna tickle ST a little bit which will gonna get repaired before next shot (especially thanks to emergency repair commander skill). allied TD won't able to kill ST while ST slowly eats squad by squad.

I decided to stop playing before next fix on this unit, cause this thing gives nothing but a cancer.

It literally has hp of 2 medium tank, and it can shoot & get back with back up of 2 racket behind. TD will just gonna tickle ST a little bit which will gonna get repaired before next shot (especially thanks to emergency repair commander skill). allied TD won't able to kill ST while ST slowly eats squad by squad.

I decided to stop playing before next fix on this unit, cause this thing gives nothing but a cancer.

And how is this different when you put 2 at guns behind the back of a kv2? or isu152? or calliope? because i had to deal with this tactic for ages now. now the allies have to deal with something similar it suddenly is a problem?

And how is this different when you put 2 at guns behind the back of a kv2? or isu152? or calliope? because i had to deal with this tactic for ages now. now the allies have to deal with something similar it suddenly is a problem?

KV2 and Calliope can not reliably wipe squads due to the random nature of their projectile. The current Sturmtiger is lie the old B4 with vet precision strike, except more broken because it's not like you recon+arty it (and even if someone was bad enough to get hit by arty it's not like the ST would die).

I can't believe you actually have problems with the ISU - sorry to say but you must be quite bad. It has a model wipe cap and slow reload that gives you ample time to retreat. I'm assuming you're playing 4v4, in which case, the sturmtiger is currently disrupting the more competitive modes of 1v1 and 2v2, and that's why it needs fixing.

And how is this different when you put 2 at guns behind the back of a kv2? or isu152? or calliope? because i had to deal with this tactic for ages now. now the allies have to deal with something similar it suddenly is a problem?

ISU and KV2 are not meta anymore. I haven't seem ISU in 2v2 in ages, same with KV2. Cali might be a single thing that clings USF to teamgames, but I agree it is a BS unit.

ST is meta in 1v1 and 2v2 and practically uncounterable. The moment it's out, the game stops being fun for your opponent. What exactly is so hard to understand about this? Or you just so filled with vengeance for the opposite faction that you want every player who play it suffer, because you did because of an X unit? What kind of logic is this?

And how is this different when you put 2 at guns behind the back of a kv2? or isu152? or calliope? because i had to deal with this tactic for ages now. now the allies have to deal with something similar it suddenly is a problem?

Are you intentionally being dumb? kv2 or isu152 requires to be in frontline to deal dmg constantly. And it has no way near the squad wipe compatibility to that of ST. They are unit that needs to be compared with havey tank such as KT.

Calliope (just like any other rocket arty) is kinda similar to the ST due to the fire & reload at back. But it can be easily destroyed with flanking.
Because... I don't know... maybe it has something to do with NOT HAVING 242 ARMOR WITH 1440 HP?