The state of Sturmtiger

Game promotes blobbing at lower skill levels, scouting is less relevant. ST shoots out of nowhere scoring a lot of kills. Just don't make units like that.

So you define what the game is like at lower levels and when your description no longer fits that's a problem? The game promotes blobbing at lower skill levels? Well no more of that with the Sturmtiger. Scouting is less relevant? Well maybe it isn't. Makes no sense.

why should i discuss l2p issues without even a provided replay?

I don't , neither does anyone here in this thread need to provide a replay for you to know that the ST is broken.If you actually play the game you would know the ST is broken.Oh, maybe I forgot that you could just be a run-of-the-mill axis fanboy defending his crutch vehicle, there's no shortage of people like that in this game.

So you define what the game is like at lower levels and when your description no longer fits that's a problem? The game promotes blobbing at lower skill levels? Well no more of that with the Sturmtiger. Scouting is less relevant? Well maybe it isn't. Makes no sense.

if Sturmtiger was only effective against blobs, the thread would not have been created in the first place. This is just a silly argument.

balance discussions are just a lazy excuse for not wanting to adapt yourself and question oneself's performance.

(provide a replay and ask people what you could've done better in that specific match e.g. something which could've been done a hundred times in the time you wrote your balance posts)

Reaching toplevel play cost a lot of time, its not posting just a replay. Can you imagine that players that buy a game for its full price just want to play it from time to time to have some fun? Can you imagine that it is frustrating if there are units that are op below toplevel play?

In this situation you have three options:
1) stop playing (community dwindles)
2) post somewhere offical hoping that someone takes it serious (to get the ultimate "playercard plz" or "l2p" answer)
3) live with the situation and either change faction or endure that you loose more than you are winning, because game is balanced around toplevel play or around one gamemode

Pesonally I do think there is a company behind each game that only earns a very small margin of money with a few topplayers. They better should balance the game for the big part of casual players too. Everyone wants a fun experience and the company needs the money. It is just that easy.

Reaching toplevel play cost a lot of time, its not posting just a replay. Can you imagine that players that buy a game for its full price just want to play it from time to time to have some fun? Can you imagine that it is frustrating if there are units that are op below toplevel play?

I'm having so much fun flaming OKW asses with M3 as soviets, because they dont have snares and play for fun

I'm having so much fun flaming OKW asses with M3 as soviets, because they dont have snares and play for fun

Matchmaking is quite bad too, maybe the player base is just too small already.

Reaching toplevel play cost a lot of time, its not posting just a replay. Can you imagine that players that buy a game for its full price just want to play it from time to time to have some fun? Can you imagine that it is frustrating if there are units that are op below toplevel play?

In this situation you have three options:
1) stop playing (community dwindles)
2) post somewhere offical hoping that someone takes it serious (to get the ultimate "playercard plz" or "l2p" answer)
3) live with the situation and either change faction or endure that you loose more than you are winning, because game is balanced around toplevel play or around one gamemode

Pesonally I do think there is a company behind each game that only earns a very small margin of money with a few topplayers. They better should balance the game for the big part of casual players too. Everyone wants a fun experience and the company needs the money. It is just that easy.

But you can't balance the game for low level players. As I said it's literally impossible and that's not an exaggeration. It's impossible in the actual sense of the word. Every low level player has a diffent take on any given issue because their takes are rooted in their own personal strengths, weaknesses and preferences. If you fix the game for one person you break it for another. That's why you have to distill some kind of objective criteria for unit strength. Otherwise you have nothing to work with. And the only way to do that is looking at the most optimal play available. I don't undestand how this is so hard to grasp.

Edit: Donnie is also right about not trying to improve. You have to understand that low level player balance concerns are just absurd to people who know how to play the game. It's like me arguing in chess forums that the Queen is overpowered. It would be way more advantageous for the thread creators to ask questions rather than complain.

Edit 2: I wanna give you an example I experienced the other day. I was playing 2v2 against a guy who is very active on this forum. He's around rank 150. So he gets MOST of the basics. However he made an incredibly stupid move right at the start of the game by targetting my garrisoned Rear Echelon with his Pio, MG and Gren allowing me to flank his MG with 2 Rifles. That is a typical example of a mistake that could be prevented by just THINKING for one second. But instead of doing some self refleciton he went on a massive rant about how rifles are op.

I don't , neither does anyone here in this thread need to provide a replay for you to know that the ST is broken.If you actually play the game you would know the ST is broken.Oh, maybe I forgot that you could just be a run-of-the-mill axis fanboy defending his crutch vehicle, there's no shortage of people like that in this game.

i played with it yesterday. it was easily hardcountered by 2 spreaded at guns and pathfinder who provided los

i played with it yesterday. it was easily hardcountered by 2 spreaded at guns and pathfinder who provided los

Sounds like a severe L2P issue.

Sounds like a severe L2P issue.

i won the game with smoke and flank

This entire discussion is completely pointless, the ST is cheating at the moment and needs severe nerfs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/p2uv5q/how_can_our_eyes_see_it_if_the_sturmtiger_is_not/

This entire discussion is completely pointless, the ST is cheating at the moment and needs severe nerfs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/p2uv5q/how_can_our_eyes_see_it_if_the_sturmtiger_is_not/

people just need some of that Seeking juice to adapt to ST. Clearly l2p issue.

Anyone defending the ST is either a mo*** or just depends on it to win the matches. AVRE needs a similar treatment if it becomes OP. The only saving grace is that AVRE is in a horses*** commander.
You can't have a nuke dispenser that can self spot and shoot beyond the 35 range. Well, if it had 640 hp then sure. But with 1440 hp and 240 armour, yeah, no. Imagine, a vetted ST can shoot up to range 48 and spot to range ~40. Shooting 14 AOE nukes that completely wipe everything in it's AOE.

This entire discussion is completely pointless, the ST is cheating at the moment and needs severe nerfs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/p2uv5q/how_can_our_eyes_see_it_if_the_sturmtiger_is_not/

WTF l2p issue AF.
He doesn't maphack clearly he is boosted

to the video: it could be that it was a guessed shot. Thats a normal sport to place sandbags and hide. maybe he scouted it, saw it getting built or even listened in fow

It should still have had to toll closer to give him a response. No boom tube should wipe ftom beyond vision range without obvious shotblocker. Hills clearly dont count.

why should i discuss l2p issues without even a provided replay?

Stormjager got rekt by the Sturmtiger in this match (https://youtu.be/1pD0qQ3k_8A?t=1030) and I wouldn't call his play low level. He outplayed his opponent and pulled some great moves to counter two Sturmtigers, even if it was all futile.

New Battlegrounds Semi Finals. IncaUna vs Kimbo

tell those guys to l2p. Take a closer look at those games. Just because there are few strats that are supposedly counter ST, does not mean it is fine.

Before creating this thread I just didn't went by my "feeling" but actually took time and asked Duffmann, Siberian, Jibber, Elpern + you get the reaction of KThez, which called it a "Scumtiger". You have majority of the community trolling this unit and outright calling it toxic, casts, data of Elite Armor pickrate, but it is fine, because Paths with 2 at guns counter it. Units got nerfed for much less, like falls with faust or Tiger with Panzer Commander.

I can't come up with justification for COH2 meta, where oneshotting units, that only 2 faction has access to are part of it.

Pls, might as well bring back low scatter B4 and while Balance team are working on it, perhaps give something similar to USF. That would be nice. The dream meta of the game that revolves around unit preservation.

So you define what the game is like at lower levels and when your description no longer fits that's a problem?

No reason to say it like that, absolutely unnecessary. Of course i do not.

The game promotes blobbing at lower skill levels? Well no more of that with the Sturmtiger. Scouting is less relevant? Well maybe it isn't. Makes no sense.

Sorry, I didn't write that right. I didn't want to say that scouting is less relevant. I wanted to say that people don't put the same effort into it and see less relevance where a better player knows that intel is key to victory.

tell those guys to l2p. Take a closer look at those games. Just because there are few strats that are supposedly counter ST, does not mean it is fine.

Before creating this thread I just didn't went by my "feeling" but actually took time and asked Duffmann, Siberian, Jibber, Elpern + you get the reaction of KThez, which called it a "Scumtiger". You have majority of the community trolling this unit and outright calling it toxic, casts, data of Elite Armor pickrate, but it is fine, because Paths with 2 at guns counter it. Units got nerfed for much less, like falls with faust or Tiger with Panzer Commander.

I can't come up with justification for COH2 meta, where oneshotting units, that only 2 faction has access to are part of it.

Pls, might as well bring back low scatter B4 and while Balance team are working on it, perhaps give something similar to USF. That would be nice. The dream meta of the game that revolves around unit preservation.

Guess the balance team nerfed Path vision on team weapon for a reason: they could hardcounter the Sturmtiger

But you can't balance the game for low level players. As I said it's literally impossible and that's not an exaggeration. It's impossible in the actual sense of the word. Every low level player has a diffent take on any given issue because their takes are rooted in their own personal strengths, weaknesses and preferences. If you fix the game for one person you break it for another. That's why you have to distill some kind of objective criteria for unit strength. Otherwise you have nothing to work with. And the only way to do that is looking at the most optimal play available. I don't undestand how this is so hard to grasp.

You can do the right basics, if...

..all factions need the same micro level
..factions are not artifically restricted in their stock rosters
..factions can compete on an eye level from early to late game

For example it is definitely not the same micro level if one player has a more expensive and more powerful tank while the other player has to build two more squishy tanks which both must be controlled.

Edit 2: I wanna give you an example I experienced the other day. I was playing 2v2 against a guy who is very active on this forum. He's around rank 150. So he gets MOST of the basics. However he made an incredibly stupid move right at the start of the game by targetting my garrisoned Rear Echelon with his Pio, MG and Gren allowing me to flank his MG with 2 Rifles. That is a typical example of a mistake that could be prevented by just THINKING for one second. But instead of doing some self refleciton he went on a massive rant about how rifles are op.

That is a tactical mistake. I'm with you there, you can't balance that of course.

Edit: Donnie is also right about not trying to improve. You have to understand that low level player balance concerns are just absurd to people who know how to play the game. It's like me arguing in chess forums that the Queen is overpowered. It would be way more advantageous for the thread creators to ask questions rather than complain.

The Queen surely is op, but because the game is symmetrical with the exception of one taking the first turn, it is even. ;-)
It took me ages and countless fully lost squads/weapon teams to learn how to dodge a Walking Stuka somehow reliable. This example is for teamgames of course since fast Walking stuka in 1vs1 means to give up medium tank support. In teamgames Walking Stuka is incredibly early on the field and you can't be sure where it is firing once you hear the sound, because you have allies with vulnerable target zones too. So it comes down to dodging the thing as good as possible. If you compare it with Katiusha it is harder to aim too, but has incedible wiping potential at lower skill levels while Katiusha is way more consistent in damage across skill levels without causing many wipes. Katiusha is a good example for a overall well balanced unit, Walking stuka as an "all or nothing" unit is just not.