I am currently torn about the automatic vaulting over cover by infantry.
On one hand I like the feature because in COH2 we had some maps which were terribly micro intesive to navigate due to a f***load of fences. (Looking at you Vaux Farmlands)
But on the otherhand I feel like it takes away from small scale engagements, and the infantry seems to vault over cover without any real penalty making it easier for CQC units to storm postions.
I would like to know what you guys think.
Automatic Vault feature in COH3
14 Jul 2021, 10:01 AM
#1
Posts: 240
The Ruleset is only a guideline, and are not actually the Rules. This is .org
14 Jul 2021, 10:10 AM
#2
Posts: 1794
manual vaulting make more sense if the obstacles provide cover, so you have some involvement in selecting which side you want.
but i guess this is something like reverse function, in coh1 you have more involvement in reversing but people seems to accept coh2 1click reverse
but i guess this is something like reverse function, in coh1 you have more involvement in reversing but people seems to accept coh2 1click reverse
14 Jul 2021, 11:13 AM
#3
Posts: 210
Just have an option to auto-vault or vault over manually. Easy peezy fix.
14 Jul 2021, 11:42 AM
#4
Posts: 1355
Just have an option to auto-vault or vault over manually. Easy peezy fix.
But that would be unfair. And if everybody would turn this auto vault on (to be able to compete because auto would mean less micro), there would be no reason to have this option.
14 Jul 2021, 11:44 AM
#5
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
But that would be unfair. And if everybody would turn this auto vault on (to be able to compete because auto would mean less micro), there would be no reason to have this option.
It's a bad feature imo.
Yes you have to invest less micro, but being able to select a specific piece of wall to jump over can be crucial when it comes to finding the correct walking paths in top tier gameplay to avoid mines or MG arcs etc.
Also the units constantly auto-vault during combat even if you dont want them to, because you rather want them to shoot their rifles.
I am for removing autovault, at least from multiplayer
14 Jul 2021, 12:30 PM
#6
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
It's a bad feature imo.
Yes you have to invest less micro, but being able to select a specific piece of wall to jump over can be crucial when it comes to finding the correct walking paths in top tier gameplay to avoid mines or MG arcs etc.
Also the units constantly auto-vault during combat even if you dont want them to, because you rather want them to shoot their rifles.
I am for removing autovault, at least from multiplayer
remove it! it feels so nice to do it manually
14 Jul 2021, 12:33 PM
#7
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
I always thought that vaulting squads should get a modifier like red cover or so. After all you're a big huge target jumping over a fence.
Haven't played yet, but I always felt that manual vaulting was very satisfying and created a more commando-style feeling.
Haven't played yet, but I always felt that manual vaulting was very satisfying and created a more commando-style feeling.
14 Jul 2021, 12:51 PM
#8
Posts: 210
But that would be unfair. And if everybody would turn this auto vault on (to be able to compete because auto would mean less micro), there would be no reason to have this option.
It would be on by default. Anyone who doesn't want to auto-vault could just turn it off. It's like saying an automatic car gives you an advantage over a manual stick shift. There's really no difference at that level of micro. You push 1 extra button and if you average like 300 APM, 1 action isn't going to change much.
14 Jul 2021, 15:54 PM
#9
Posts: 112
I love it, much less micro heavy and if you don't want them to vault over something in combat just queue a move order to go round. Simple
But 90% of the time I want them to take the vault if it's quicker.
But 90% of the time I want them to take the vault if it's quicker.
14 Jul 2021, 17:14 PM
#10
Posts: 240
I love it, much less micro heavy and if you don't want them to vault over something in combat just queue a move order to go round. Simple
But 90% of the time I want them to take the vault if it's quicker.
It would be on by default. Anyone who doesn't want to auto-vault could just turn it off. It's like saying an automatic car gives you an advantage over a manual stick shift. There's really no difference at that level of micro. You push 1 extra button and if you average like 300 APM, 1 action isn't going to change much.
I feel like people dont quite get the point I was trying to make. Its not that I dont want them to vault.
Its about the fact that you can easily rush infatry with bolt-actions behind sandbags and bumrush em by straight approaching them w/o repurcussions.
Especially on the 1st Airfield mission with these sandbag circles. as soon as an SMG squad reaches the outer wall, everyone inside gets nuked.
In COH2 you cant simply vault into the enemy like that, you would get a nade under your entire squad quite quickly, besides that your squad stops fireing for quite a while, while doing so.
The Ruleset is only a guideline, and are not actually the Rules. This is .org
14 Jul 2021, 17:18 PM
#11
Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36
yes i am also for removing autovault, at least from multiplayer.
14 Jul 2021, 22:33 PM
#12
Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15
15 Jul 2021, 01:05 AM
#13
Posts: 4928
They should make the navigation AI see vaulting as equivelent to 10 blocks of movement, so they only do it if a fence is in the way and not just because they wanted to move a few feet over.
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15 Jul 2021, 01:55 AM
#14
Posts: 422 | Subs: 2
I love the autovault functionality; its intuitive and requires less hand-holding, but the biggest upside is the retreat paths. I suppose I'd be okay with manual vaulting as long as the squads still autovault while retreating.
I'm in agreement that there should be some RA penalty or similar incurred while vaulting if its possible.
I'm in agreement that there should be some RA penalty or similar incurred while vaulting if its possible.
Japan:
-no unit preservation ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
15 Jul 2021, 02:50 AM
#15
Posts: 307
I love the autovault functionality; its intuitive and requires less hand-holding, but the biggest upside is the retreat paths. I suppose I'd be okay with manual vaulting as long as the squads still autovault while retreating.
I'm in agreement that there should be some RA penalty or similar incurred while vaulting if its possible.
retreat still as same as COH2, no auto vault for fastest retreat route
15 Jul 2021, 03:57 AM
#16
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
not a huge fan of auto-vaulting, but i guess i'd be fine with an auto/manual toggle. however, as others said already, if it is to be thing especially in multiplayer there should at least me some kind of penalty (higher RA for example) incurred when your whole squad jumps/climbs over a fence. otherwise there's just zero tactical depth in choosing if and where to vault and the whole feature becomes merely a fancy set of animations without any gameplay-related implications.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
15 Jul 2021, 13:31 PM
#17
Posts: 589
could they make it both? so if I issue a move order to the other side of the fence they will auto vault to the other side, but if I want to specify an exact location to vault, I just right click on the specific spot I want the vault to occur at. is there any reason this would not work?
15 Jul 2021, 14:07 PM
#18
Posts: 112
I feel like people dont quite get the point I was trying to make. Its not that I dont want them to vault.
Its about the fact that you can easily rush infatry with bolt-actions behind sandbags and bumrush em by straight approaching them w/o repurcussions.
Especially on the 1st Airfield mission with these sandbag circles. as soon as an SMG squad reaches the outer wall, everyone inside gets nuked.
In COH2 you cant simply vault into the enemy like that, you would get a nade under your entire squad quite quickly, besides that your squad stops fireing for quite a while, while doing so.
Regards to units in CQB in COH2 - isn't there a minium cover range anyway? So vaulting over the wall or standing on the other side shouldn't alter the the time to kill?
Ok, I understand, In that case I think the discussion too binary around to have or not have.
It's a major ease-of-use feature, it's logical and should be kept. But clearly needs adjusting.
Perhaps received accuracy and other debuffs as the vault is taking place.
Could also be expanding into a wider regular & fast move system like in wargame (with single and double click movement). Double click fast moves enables auto-vault for infantry and routes vehicles down roads etc. Single click regular moves tells infantry to walk normally and vehicle to follow the most direct paths.
15 Jul 2021, 14:08 PM
#19
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
It's a bad feature imo.
Yes you have to invest less micro, but being able to select a specific piece of wall to jump over can be crucial when it comes to finding the correct walking paths in top tier gameplay to avoid mines or MG arcs etc.
Also the units constantly auto-vault during combat even if you dont want them to, because you rather want them to shoot their rifles.
I am for removing autovault, at least from multiplayer
But autovault doesn't really take away player control the way you describe it? You can still precisely determine which route your squad is supposed to take. If I don't want my squad to take a specific route in CoH2 I can make it do that regardless of whether there's a fence or not.
15 Jul 2021, 14:50 PM
#20
Posts: 178
RA penalty with autovault will instantly result in frustrating scenarios for players. The only reason automatic function can work as a QOL thing is if they have no or nearly no drawbacks, otherwise the inability to directly choose when the automatic part of the function happens will cause situations where you take more damage than you wanted to for no reason.
I think autovault is fine conceptually, but the mechanics of how units move around need to be tweaked to cut down on as many unintuitive vaulting situations as possible which given how awkward units move in this pre-alpha will almost assuredly be improved upon. So I'm not worried at all about this function. It's just a quirk of pre-alpha right now.
I think autovault is fine conceptually, but the mechanics of how units move around need to be tweaked to cut down on as many unintuitive vaulting situations as possible which given how awkward units move in this pre-alpha will almost assuredly be improved upon. So I'm not worried at all about this function. It's just a quirk of pre-alpha right now.
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