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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Sturmtiger feels very underwhelming compared to the B4

Sturmtiger feels very underwhelming compared to the B4

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Vipper
8 Jul 2021, 13:24 PM
#41
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 13:17 PMmr.matrix300


I am pretty sure that 90% of people that get this commander get it because of the Sturmtiger.

The same people would get the commander it was moved to for the same reason.

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 13:17 PMmr.matrix300

Ofc 221 and Heat Shells are nice but overall it would be like removing B4 from Counterattacktactics. Also one needs one other commander that would need to give up one of his abilties in favor of ST ... and which commander should this be? Special OPs or Breakthrough? I am sure Command Panther or Jagdtiger + Tanks that have acess to HEAT + self repair would be a bit too strong

Not really. ST was a stock unit while B4 was unique to the commander from start.
:)
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mr.matrix300
8 Jul 2021, 14:20 PM
#42
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 13:24 PMVipper

The same people would get the commander it was moved to for the same reason.

Ah yes. Just another 50 hours + of grinding


jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 13:24 PMVipper

Not really. ST was a stock unit while B4 was unique to the commander from start.


And that was when? And before and after they added this commander?

Also there still remains the problem that switching ST with JT or Command Panther (or something else) could result in something that is actually broken
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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Vipper
8 Jul 2021, 14:44 PM
#43
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 14:20 PMmr.matrix300

Ah yes. Just another 50 hours + of grinding




And that was when? And before and after they added this commander?

Also there still remains the problem that switching ST with JT or Command Panther (or something else) could result in something that is actually broken

It is my opinion that JT simply does not fit the commander neither thematically nor ability wise.

There are solution.

Think we can agree to disagree on this one.
:)
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Klement Pikhtura
8 Jul 2021, 15:05 PM
#44
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 13:18 PMJohnSmith


The SturmTiger is correctly the reason why people chose this commander. I absolutely love playing with someone who knows how to use the ST so well. The commander would be forgotten about if it did not have a ST.

It was a part of meta before the ST 'adjustment'. As was said earlier, 221 is a great tool for early game pressure, tank commander provides great bonuses to the vehicle and HEAT Shells cannot be underestimated + self repair is a handy ability. Duffmann, for example, was spamming it for the long time way before the patch. Although he used it mostly without ST.


Also it used to be 4th picked commander, now it is second picked.
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JohnSmith
8 Jul 2021, 15:08 PM
#45
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 15:05 PMKlement Pikhtura

It was a part of meta before the ST 'adjustment'. As was said earlier, 221 is a great tool for early game pressure, tank commander provides great bonuses to the vehicle and HEAT Shells cannot be underestimated + self repair is a handy ability. Duffmann, for example, was spamming it for the long time way before the patch. Although he used it mostly without ST.


Also it used to be 4th picked commander, now it is second picked.


Yeah, that's true, but now the meta has changed, and i am talking about how the game is now, and not how it was in the past. The ST adjustment makes it awesome.
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GachiGasm
8 Jul 2021, 15:26 PM
#46
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Thing is, while Elite armor is really good without ST, I doubt it will be picked without ST.

Not because ST is nessesery that good (while it is good), but because other commanders will become way more attractive with ST in it.

Lets say if we swap ST with JT and even remove heat shells from JT, then breakthought will become insanly powerfull. Same if we swap ST with Tiger from Grand offensive.

Spawing it with commander panther will most likely end up with some broken unit\ability combinations.

In other words while ST doesnt really fit the Elite armor, but its power is sorta balanced out by the commander it is in. And there are no commanders you can put ST in without making it almost no-brainer pick.
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Support Sapper
8 Jul 2021, 15:52 PM
#47
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 12:54 PMmr.matrix300


Are you sure the Cromwell was full HP? Just tested it on 5 Cromwells and every one had a tiny bit of HP left

Also tested it on T34/85. A hit from the ST leaves the T34/85 with 28% health (so 220/800 HP). Those values also do fit the 580 DMG stat from the serealia site

Churchill is also left with 58% HP



Agree with that but from a 3v3 Rank 13-15 PoV it is also not broken




Pls no. It was and is the main selling point of the commander

Yeah, my cromwell may have taken a faust before, same for the Churchill, it take an St shot and get killed by a panther shortly after. Combat was intense so i may mistake the amount of hp, but I will still say that the ST can seriously hurt tank.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Kurobane
8 Jul 2021, 16:16 PM
#48
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

Alot of people forget about smoke. Smoke before sending the Sturmtiger in can make quick work of MGs/AT-Guns since they are usually to slow to dodge the Sturmtiger. Once it gets some Vet it can solo on its own though smoke is still great if used on retreat as well.

Also hitting vehicles like the Churchill may not kill it, it is basically free XP and can power level your SturmTiger.

I often get my SturmTiger to Vet 5 and make it a nightmare for the enemy to capture VP points or use team weapons.

However even without the SturmTiger the Heat Shells alone are amazing and Shred vehicles that would give Rakketens trouble like the KV-1/Churchill
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Klement Pikhtura
8 Jul 2021, 18:28 PM
#49
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

Judging by the pick rate at top 200 in all mods, including 1v1, it can be safely said that Sturmtiger is nothing but the opposite of underwhelming. Not sure if it can be compared to B4 though...

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 15:08 PMJohnSmith


Yeah, that's true, but now the meta has changed, and i am talking about how the game is now, and not how it was in the past. The ST adjustment makes it awesome.


I'm just saying that commander was relevant before the patch. You said that it would have been forgotten and I disagreed and explained why. That is all. Not gonna debate about if new meta influenced effectiveness of other abilities that commander has, because that is besides the point.

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ZeroZeroNi
8 Jul 2021, 21:29 PM
#50
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 09:13 AMKlement Pikhtura

and you did test it and found out that it had what exact penetration? Are you for real?

Nope barely did any damage to tanks.
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thedarkarmadillo
8 Jul 2021, 22:17 PM
#51
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 13:18 PMJohnSmith


The SturmTiger is correctly the reason why people chose this commander. I absolutely love playing with someone who knows how to use the ST so well. The commander would be forgotten about if it did not have a ST.

I USED to pick it for the sturmtiger but the HEAT shells are more attractive than can be put into words. Because of the damage increase using HEAT also increases AI of tanks, so combined with a KT.... sweet Jesus...
#stalinwept
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Kurobane
8 Jul 2021, 22:41 PM
#52
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 22:17 PMthedarkarmadillo

I USED to pick it for the sturmtiger but the HEAT shells are more attractive than can be put into words. Because of the damage increase using HEAT also increases AI of tanks, so combined with a KT.... sweet Jesus...


Heat Shells increases all damage by 30% as well as penetration by 30%. King Tiger with Heat Shells vs Infantry is actually hilarious. If you get lucky it can literally delete entire squads.

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Klement Pikhtura
8 Jul 2021, 23:20 PM
#53
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 21:29 PMZeroZeroNi

Nope barely did any damage to tanks.

have you tried setting owner of an armor as enemy and shooting exactly at the center of the vehicle? Just asking.
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thedarkarmadillo
8 Jul 2021, 23:36 PM
#54
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 22:41 PMKurobane


Heat Shells increases all damage by 30% as well as penetration by 30%. King Tiger with Heat Shells vs Infantry is actually hilarious. If you get lucky it can literally delete entire squads.


Yep that's why I pick it! Plus being able to make all armour punch above in tank fights is massive. HEAT is the sleeper star of the commander imo
#stalinwept
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Clarity
9 Jul 2021, 00:58 AM
#55
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 479

Both are broken as fuck and shouldn't have been buffed.
How to play CoH 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZwJFjiA0A :hansREKT:



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theekvn
9 Jul 2021, 02:15 AM
#56
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 22:41 PMKurobane


Heat Shells increases all damage by 30% as well as penetration by 30%. King Tiger with Heat Shells vs Infantry is actually hilarious. If you get lucky it can literally delete entire squads.


basically, HEAT shell is HE with the copper-lined conical shaped area. :hansRNG:
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mr.matrix300
9 Jul 2021, 04:04 AM
#57
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 21:29 PMZeroZeroNi

Nope barely did any damage to tanks.


A direct hit of ST deals 580 damage (for comparison: IS 2 has 1080 HP). That is not exactly "barely any damage". I think you might have gotten deflection damage which is less (290) the enemy tank was not in the center of the explosion
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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thedarkarmadillo
9 Jul 2021, 04:16 AM
#58
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2021, 04:04 AMmr.matrix300


A direct hit of ST deals 580 damage (for comparison: IS 2 has 1080 HP). That is not exactly "barely any damage". I think you might have gotten deflection damage which is less (290)

I thought the pen was high enough that it couldn't bounce?

Side note I just had a flash back of vehicle saving death rots where a Katy was hit by a ST and drove off with a damage main gun
#stalinwept
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mr.matrix300
9 Jul 2021, 04:32 AM
#59
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2021, 04:16 AMthedarkarmadillo

I thought the pen was high enough that it couldn't bounce?


AFAIK it can't but the more you go outside of the center of the circle the less damage you get (at least this is how I think it works)

Center = full damage
Border = very little damage (even less than the alleged deflection damage (Gonna be honest, no clue how deflection damage works ... maybe the 290 DD is the "highest" DD one can get and it again gets lower the further away you go?)

Ah ... nvmd. There are other damage stat too (maye deflection damage is entirely meaningless as ST can't bounce) :

DMG near 580
DMG mid 145
DMG far 45

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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ZeroZeroNi
9 Jul 2021, 05:41 AM
#60
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2021, 23:20 PMKlement Pikhtura

have you tried setting owner of an armor as enemy and shooting exactly at the center of the vehicle? Just asking.

Aweeeeeee......... Jee........ I never thought of doing that. Stupid me thank you oh smart big brain mister for such an Insightful advice my single digit IQ brain could have never come up with something like this. This must be the intelligence of a quadruple digit brain. My mind has been blown.
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