Should Osttruppen really be buffed?

Hey guys just wanted to do a little poll out of curiosity on what people think about the Osttruppen buffs in the current test patch. Personally I think they have potential to hurt the game significantly but I would like to see how others view it. (I'm viewing this purely through a 1v1 perspective so keep that in mind)

Osttruppen DPS should fall by about 33%.

They should never be good enough to be a top end strategy. When they are, they are incredibly oppressive and manpower attrition becomes a non-factor. It also completely bypasses the concept of team weapon weaknesses for Ostheer.

I will say, things are being looked at for Ostruppen. At least in yellow cover tests shoot outs - while not always a thing in actual games - they do beat all infantry at long and mid ranges and short-range early game and do decently enough to stall for other supporting units.

We do want to keep them as cheap troops that can stall enemy forces and work well with the MG 42 so they might keep sandbags and/or other items if their early game DPS is dropped so they cannot decisively win vs other infantry at their set ranges.

What I would intend if it was some DPS changes:

Ostruppen vs Conscripts
Truppen win at long-range, around equal at mid and lose up close. This match up, however is mainly focused on positioning and who is in cover first.

Ostruppen vs Conscripts
Defeat Riflemen at long-range, lose at mid and short.

Ostruppen vs Infantry Section
Lose to IS at long-range, loses slightly at mid and wins at short range

I've done some initial testing and reducing their long-range by 10% and their cover bonus from +300% to +250% gets them around somewhere close to the result above when in cover wars.

Now these might all work, but the Ostruppen always have the support of the MG42 and the Truppen are in an army that has more starting MP to account for their T1.

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If Osttruppen are forced in T1 to avoid oppressive early game, then they are a prime target to make them an alternative similar to Pfussies as opposed to a Gren replacement.

Also, what do you conclude from the in-cover tests? If they are bad out of cover, it should be fine. Their scaling could be even changed by lowering their base accuracy and increasing the in cover bonus accordingly

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Isn't that basically identical to how Grens preform right now?

I'm still unsure as to how these won't just be a cheaper, more easily massable version of Grens that can make sandbags.

Isn't that basically identical to how Grens preform right now?

I'm still unsure as to how these won't just be a cheaper, more easily massable version of Grens that can make sandbags.

Well, there's not many other combat ranges I think they could have. Unless you want to rework their cover bonuses. Early game they do beat all other troops at the mid-long range in cover wars just because of their incredibly high raw accuracy and their squad size. They do lose when out of cover for obvious reasons, but I am just noting their only weak combat range during cover wars is short-range and only vs particular troops.

Well, there's not many other combat ranges I think they could have. Unless you want to rework their cover bonuses. Early game they do beat all other troops at the mid-long range in cover wars just because of their incredibly high raw accuracy and their squad size. They do lose when out of cover for obvious reasons, but I am just noting their only weak combat range during cover wars is short-range and only vs particular troops.

Simply remove LMG upgrade and change to target size upgrade.

The unit is currently bad at recrewing support weapons and that is something ostheer need.

Well, there's not many other combat ranges I think they could have. Unless you want to rework their cover bonuses. Early game they do beat all other troops at the mid-long range in cover wars just because of their incredibly high raw accuracy and their squad size. They do lose when out of cover for obvious reasons, but I am just noting their only weak combat range during cover wars is short-range and only vs particular troops.

They shouldn't be able to beat other infantry, they are so much cheaper than all other infantry. Osttruppen are supposed to just be meat shields while light vehicles, panzergrenadiers, sniper, mg42, flame thrower pioneers and tanks do most of the damage. Right now they have more max range DPS than grenadiers AND more effecive HP than them due to squad size. They should not be able to 1v1 any squad at all unless they have an advantage(better cover, better vet etc).

Remove the lmg upgrade and buff their rifle veterancy dps scaling, or alternatively have a 3 stv upgrade, since they are osttruppen

Also it would be great if, after the proper nerfs, they become a tier 0 unit again

these things are reeeaallly hard to beat in alot of cases. the thing is your always going to be fighting in cover and winning...and if your not your playing them wrong.

Change upgrade to an MG 34 just because it makes for more interesting variety compared to Grens whilst having the same handling.

Well, there's not many other combat ranges I think they could have. Unless you want to rework their cover bonuses. Early game they do beat all other troops at the mid-long range in cover wars just because of their incredibly high raw accuracy and their squad size. They do lose when out of cover for obvious reasons, but I am just noting their only weak combat range during cover wars is short-range and only vs particular troops.

And with a sniper behind, how do they work?
Those vacuum tests Ostruppen vs other mainline infantry aren't taking in account that Ostheer is already starting with an HMG at T0, pioner with superior vision range and T1 including a sniper all of that more accessible with Ostruppen cheap price and more effective with their staying power.
Not to mention fast Pzgren that will destroy any infantry on the field at all ranges at 4 minutes mark with the early capping power provided by Ostruppen.

And with a sniper behind, how do they work?
Those vacuum tests Ostruppen vs other mainline infantry aren't taking in account that Ostheer is already starting with an HMG at T0, pioner with superior vision range and T1 including a sniper all of that more accessible with Ostruppen cheap price and more effective with their staying power.
Not to mention fast Pzgren that will destroy any infantry on the field at all ranges at 4 minutes mark with the early capping power provided by Ostruppen.

At least 251 was taken into account long time ago by giving osttruppen longer reinforce time.

And with a sniper behind, how do they work?
Those vacuum tests Ostruppen vs other mainline infantry aren't taking in account that Ostheer is already starting with an HMG at T0, pioner with superior vision range and T1 including a sniper all of that more accessible with Ostruppen cheap price and more effective with their staying power.
Not to mention fast Pzgren that will destroy any infantry on the field at all ranges at 4 minutes mark with the early capping power provided by Ostruppen.

I've already stated they don't need to be as effective against other infantry as the Truppen are already backed by the MG 42 as mentioned above. The fact they can beat Tommies and Riflemen at their own effective ranges - long and mid respectively - without MG support says something.

I will say, things are being looked at for Ostruppen. At least in yellow cover tests shoot outs - while not always a thing in actual games - they do beat all infantry at long and mid ranges and short-range early game and do decently enough to stall for other supporting units.

We do want to keep them as cheap troops that can stall enemy forces and work well with the MG 42 so they might keep sandbags and/or other items if their early game DPS is dropped so they cannot decisively win vs other infantry at their set ranges.

What I would intend if it was some DPS changes:

What about cost efficiency? I mean what is average manpower attrition during all those engagements for both sides?

RANT WARNING:
When OSTTR was placed in T1 together with grens, IMO OSTTR lost its purpose, Being so similar to Grens.

would prefer if it was buildable in T0 (HQ) together with pio's and MG42's, as i still find its function best as a T1 skip/Gren replacement.
keep it as it used to be before the patch more or less, even nerf it to 5man squad, and get a 6th man bolster later on, nvm the lategame or MG42. Some units in the beginning of the game are there to buy you time, with limited utility (ultralights etc)

with the direction OSTTR is heading now, there might be a potential to turn OSTTR into something different than Grens, as grens and OSSTR fill many of the same tasks, mostly behind cover etc.
the buffs to OSSTR DPS is overkill

but if OSSTR were to get buffed behind cover and DPS, i would still prefer an MG42 over a vet3 OSSTR with lmg42 behind sandbags.
since PGrens are offensive and OSTTR and Grens are defensive, and the last 2 are built from same building, too similar, i would suggest if OSSTR commander is picked, some change were to happen to Grens, to fit in between the defensive and offensive role, although i would suggest Grens could get a G43 upgrade option upgrade to diversify, it would be overkill

Ostruppen vs Conscripts
Truppen win at long-range, around equal at mid and lose up close. This match up, however is mainly focused on positioning and who is in cover first.

Ostruppen vs Conscripts
Defeat Riflemen at long-range, lose at mid and short.

Ostruppen vs Infantry Section
Lose to IS at long-range, loses slightly at mid and wins at short range

Is this 1on1 without LMG? Because I don't think 200mp / 16mp for reinforce unit should not win at any range without LMG. They are just too cost-effective & it's cheap mp usually adds one more squad of ostruppen in early fight.

since PGrens are offensive and OSTTR and Grens are defensive, and the last 2 are built from same building, too similar, i would suggest if OSSTR commander is picked, some change were to happen to Grens, to fit in between the defensive and offensive role, although i would suggest Grens could get a G43 upgrade option upgrade to diversify, it would be overkill

AFAIK You don't play OSTTR defensive, you should play offensive with the power of more squad in field. Poking around & make them bleed with territory lose. If you are gonna play OSTTR defensive, what's the purpose of it? You have one of the best defensive(if equipped with LMG) inf. gren with you.

Leithianz.
i suppose you are right in that regard, it depends on how many OSSTR you are gonna get, and what the enemy has.
OSTTR work best behind cover, and they get slaughtered out in the open, overpowering your enemy with OSTTR blob is one thing, getting 2-3 to buy you some time until more powerful stuff comes along is another