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Petition to Nerf/Remove Soviet Mortar Flare

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27 Apr 2021, 07:39 AM
#61
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 07:31 AMmrgame2
the strength of soviet mortar is the 6 man and cons merge so it can outlast ost mortar in 4v4 games


Merging into the mortar is a waste of mp. You loose more mp then its worth.

One 240 mp mortar to needs a 240 mp squad to stand any chance dispite that it should already outlast the counterpart.... this means the ost mortar is op or the soviet one up.

All jokes aside mortars arent meant to dual eachother. Just as mg's arent.
27 Apr 2021, 07:43 AM
#62
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 07:31 AMmrgame2
the strength of soviet mortar is the 6 man and cons merge so it can outlast ost mortar in 4v4 games

No, its not a strength, in fact its pretty much a non factor, because if you're indirect is under any attack that isn't other indirect, you've fucked up badly.
27 Apr 2021, 08:23 AM
#63
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



Merging into the mortar is a waste of mp. You loose more mp then its worth.

One 240 mp mortar to needs a 240 mp squad to stand any chance dispite that it should already outlast the counterpart.... this means the ost mortar is op or the soviet one up.

All jokes aside mortars arent meant to dual eachother. Just as mg's arent.


in 4v4 you can always encounter mortar spammer.
in fact, even 2v2 you can get mortar meme plays. and in a direct mortar dualing, sov mortar edges it ime
27 Apr 2021, 08:25 AM
#64
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 08:23 AMmrgame2


in 4v4 you can always encounter mortar spammer.
in fact, even 2v2 you can get mortar meme plays. and in a direct mortar dualing, sov mortar edges it ime

Soviet mortar can't win vs ost mortar vet1 onwards, because counterbarrage outranges it.
27 Apr 2021, 08:42 AM
#65
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

the point i am saying is sov mortar is now hardly worse mortar against ost one and putting flare back to vet1 seems fine
27 Apr 2021, 09:18 AM
#66
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 08:42 AMmrgame2
the point i am saying is sov mortar is now hardly worse mortar against ost one and putting flare back to vet1 seems fine


Yes its on par because of its current preformance. The flare at vet 0 imo is the reason. It was put there for that very reason. And afaik the only buff (wich all mortars got) smoke and regular barrage not sharing a cooldown. Thats not a reason to nerf one faction only.
27 Apr 2021, 09:20 AM
#67
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 08:25 AMKatitof

Soviet mortar can't win vs ost mortar vet1 onwards, because counterbarrage outranges it.

That's a good point if you want your mortar to barrage Katys and Calliopes 80% of the time.
27 Apr 2021, 09:22 AM
#68
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


That's a good point if you want your mortar to barrage Katys and Calliopes 80% of the time.

Well, you aren't going to be seeing these around the time frame where mortars are relevant.
27 Apr 2021, 09:27 AM
#69
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2021, 09:22 AMKatitof

Well, you aren't going to be seeing these around the time frame where mortars are relevant.

Does not change the fact that the CB on the mortar is next to useless, even vs other mortars.
27 Apr 2021, 09:56 AM
#70
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Perhaps OffTopic: Does CB on Mortars have the same "feature" as CB on artillery pieces?
27 Apr 2021, 10:01 AM
#71
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Perhaps OffTopic: Does CB on Mortars have the same "feature" as CB on artillery pieces?

Mechanically, it should be exact same thing, just downscaled.
27 Apr 2021, 10:17 AM
#72
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

Perhaps OffTopic: Does CB on Mortars have the same "feature" as CB on artillery pieces?

Haven't tested it, but I would assume it behaves the same.
Sanders said it does not trigger once the enemy unit is out of range, so I assume the tracking is a non-issue with mortars.
27 Apr 2021, 11:58 AM
#73
avatar of jackill2611

Posts: 246

Next thread:
Petition to remove molotovs. With molotovs cons do have better stats and counter grens in cqc!
27 Apr 2021, 12:40 PM
#74
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



People like to cry and complain about everything when most of the problems are on a personal level. Mortar Flare is fine in my opinion. First if the Soviet player has Mortars then they went with a T-2 opening and against OKW....definitely a L2P issue here. You can do the same thing with IR Halftrack or JLI cloaked to give you sight which btw does not cost ammunition or require a mortar which will not last to end game once Stuka or Panzerwerfer hits the field.

Either way this is a non issue compared to Spec OPs global flare. It requires a Support Unit which...does supporting abilities or do we want to go back to Precision Strike?


Yeah, L2P thread combined with some personal vendetta due to losing a game
27 Apr 2021, 14:02 PM
#75
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

I wonder if its possible to attach invisible unit or something to flare abilities, so at least you would get a map pop-up or voice clues that you are being spotted.

Main problem with any kind of flares in the game in comparison to other recon options - you dont see that you are being watched. At least camo-units and spotters have limited range and vision is affected by sight blockers. Air based recon is visible on the map and can be countered by AA.

Flares on the other hand, have absolutely no indentification what so ever, aside from visuals. This is imo one of the main reason why they are so frustrating actross all the factions.

But at any rate, I also would have cut in half duration of all flare based abilities.
27 Apr 2021, 14:06 PM
#76
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Flares of soviet already are short lived. Just a few seconds. Any less would be overkill imo.
28 Apr 2021, 01:53 AM
#77
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Flares of soviet already are short lived. Just a few seconds. Any less would be overkill imo.


it's quite long and uncounterable. that's the issue

late game, you can build 1 mortar for cheap maphack for rocket arty or su85 isu152 spotting, at vet0...

ost 222 had to get vet2 for increase sight...
28 Apr 2021, 07:51 AM
#78
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 01:53 AMmrgame2


it's quite long and uncounterable. that's the issue

late game, you can build 1 mortar for cheap maphack for rocket arty or su85 isu152 spotting, at vet0...

ost 222 had to get vet2 for increase sight...

Ok.

Lets replace mortar flare with precision strike.
Mortars have nowhere killing power they had in the past, so it should be perfectly fine and balanced ability on them now.
28 Apr 2021, 07:52 AM
#79
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 01:53 AMmrgame2


it's quite long and uncounterable. that's the issue

late game, you can build 1 mortar for cheap maphack for rocket arty or su85 isu152 spotting, at vet0...

ost 222 had to get vet2 for increase sight...


You are forgetting pio's and a scout car already has more vision at vet 0. You will see without being seen a lot off the time. Thats also nigh uncounterable and costs no muni nor is it an ability/toggle.
28 Apr 2021, 15:46 PM
#80
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 319

All flares should have their times cut in half (at least). It's currently 40 seconds of map hack for 30 muni in a faction that usually has muni out the ass, something like 15 seconds seems more appropriate. You cannot counter flares like recon planes and they stay up forever.
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