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CoH2 statistics of top200 ONLY.

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CreativeName
20 Apr 2021, 14:08 PM
#41
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 13:21 PMleithianz




Brits always have been on/off in the tournament scene. I remember smaller tournaments being dominated by british valentines until counters have been discovered previous patch (aka broken 5man grens).

UTT2 last year was dominated by Sov/UKF combo and was almost unstopable (large credit to perimeter overwatch)

I actually dont think most people would disagree that brits are weak atm but its also the most hated faction so many people dont care.
As pointed out by others, its not a tweak to their stats thats needed but a faction overhaul which is risky and for the most part wasnt allowed by Relic
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Sander93
20 Apr 2021, 14:13 PM
#42
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I think the problem with UKF, similar but more so than OKW, is that they are simply overshadowed by the EFA armies that have everything available to them stock. As long as Soviets are viable, even if UKF is totally balanced, people wouldn't pick them because the Soviets are simply more reliable (and quite frankly just because most players hate UKF). We're seeing the same with Ostheer getting picked more often than OKW even though both factions are fairly balanced atm. EFA armies have everything available stock. They don't rely on single cheese/OP units, strats or abilities (anymore). They simply have all the tools available to deal with most opposition. We've only really seen UKF in tournaments at the times they were OP. And even then only some people played them while most preferred USF or Soviets.

What they, OKW and USF really need are complete overhauls with new units, reworking tech, etc. and most importantly moving all the important tools (flamers, indirect, etc.) to their stock rosters. But that's never going to happen. We have to treat every patch as if it was the last. We don't know if Relic wants to pull the plug next week or keep the support going for another year. So we're mostly just stuck with what we got, we can create some wiggle room here and there, tweak some stats here and there, but that's it.
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leithianz
20 Apr 2021, 14:19 PM
#43
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:08 PMCreativeName


Brits always have been on/off in the tournament scene. I remember smaller tournaments being dominated by british valentines


Yes that was some cheesy tactic abusing call-in. Which eventually got stopped by making valentine commad-tank.

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:08 PMCreativeName

UTT2 last year was dominated by Sov/UKF combo and was almost unstopable (large credit to perimeter overwatch)


And they nurfed IS to the ground by making their dmg to 12. How would OST would feel if they've been told that grens are now dealing 3/4 dmg, because they are dominating 3v3 & 4v4.

I don't have a clear stat to see the actual WR of the UTT2 sadly tho.

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:08 PMCreativeName

but its also the most hated faction so many people dont care.


This is the actual feeling that I got from this forum. They just hate the faction itself, that they don't care about the balance.
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MarkedRaptor
20 Apr 2021, 17:49 PM
#44
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

I just wanted to say thanks to anyone working on the coh2 statistics website, Information like this is very valuable. This shouldn't be a form of "pure balancing" but be used to study certain factions/commanders/metas.

Although I don't agree with the concept Leithianz, LoL is too familiar with gutting a champion that wasn't fun to play against when they were too good. Pantheon comes to mind. The issue is that people don't find brits fun to fight.












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Flyingsmonster
20 Apr 2021, 17:57 PM
#45
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 155

If you play 4v4 allies right now the one thing that is glaringly apparent is how bad UKF players are on average. Of all allied factions I've played with, UKF players are always the worst players on the team, and this is a combination of the faction being very bad in team games right now, combined with low player skill as well. It's not that UKF can't work, a skilled player can do well with them IF they know what they're doing, but most players simply aren't skilled and playing a faction like UKF which is the worst in the game right now makes a bad player even worse.

Every game I play with a more than 1 UKF player tends to go badly, they just suffer so much manpower bleed and I hardly ever see them with a positive k/d. I cringe when I have a team in 4v4 of me (playing soviet or USF) with 3 UKF teammates, it's almost not even worth playing especially since lower ranked players like to spam emplacements that will just get destroyed a few minutes after they're built.
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pvtgooner
22 Apr 2021, 18:43 PM
#46
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 11:36 AMGachiGasm
While I do appreciation of the work which was put to establish new coh2stats, I wish it was never made, because it always brings this number masturbation ppl will use to backup their statements.


"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I hate that people made a stats page to use hard evidence as to what I'm saying is wrong!!! please delete site so I can keep saying axis UP buff panther PLS"
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Dec 2019, 19:44 PMmrgame2


Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
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pvtgooner
22 Apr 2021, 18:48 PM
#47
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:13 PMSander93
...

What they, OKW and USF really need are complete overhauls with new units, reworking tech, etc. and most importantly moving all the important tools (flamers, indirect, etc.) to their stock rosters.


:clap::hyper:

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:13 PMSander93
But that's never going to happen. We have to treat every patch as if it was the last. We don't know if Relic wants to pull the plug next week or keep the support going for another year. So we're mostly just stuck with what we got, we can create some wiggle room here and there, tweak some stats here and there, but that's it.


<444>_<444> >:( :banned:
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Dec 2019, 19:44 PMmrgame2


Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
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IntoTheRain
22 Apr 2021, 18:53 PM
#48
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:13 PMSander93
snip


So put more tools in the docs? Isn't that what the whole point of this patch was supposed to be?

The Soviet/Ost patch changes have been far more aggressive than any of the expansion army changes.
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IntoTheRain
22 Apr 2021, 19:31 PM
#49
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

I want to say also, is there any way to filter for game duration?

Way too many 4v4s end with a fast drop or quit. Filtering out games that end in the first 2-3 minutes would be helpful.
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KiwiBirb
23 Apr 2021, 06:39 AM
#50
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

When I look at UKF their design is super interesting to me, as instead of a generalist light vehicle (like AA HT, 222, Luchs, T70) you get an AT focused vehicle (AEC) plus a fuel cost infantry upgrade (bolster).

UKF's late game unit roster is pretty good.

The thing is, agressive light vehicle play is very dominant in high rank play, and that is not possible with the AEC. and bolster doesnt fully make up for that I guess.

Either buff the bolster power spike (but somehow maintain late game performace) or give AEC some anti infantry buff?

IDK someone who is good at the game should tell me if im being dumb
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them

and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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MarkedRaptor
23 Apr 2021, 18:53 PM
#51
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 06:39 AMKiwiBirb

The thing is, agressive light vehicle play is very dominant in high rank play, and that is not possible with the AEC. and bolster doesnt fully make up for that I guess.

Either buff the bolster power spike (but somehow maintain late game performace) or give AEC some anti infantry buff?

IDK someone who is good at the game should tell me if im being dumb


Well the UC is that light vehicle play. Which if micro'd right is unstoppable for 3 minutes until an appropriate counter appears. If it hits a twig and does donuts however it's the worst light vehicle ever. I'd agree a 20-30 fuel light vehicle would be ideal but changes would have to happen more then likely.












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Jilet
23 Apr 2021, 23:08 PM
#52
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:19 PMleithianz

And they nurfed IS to the ground by making their dmg to 12. How would OST would feel if they've been told that grens are now dealing 3/4 dmg, because they are dominating 3v3 & 4v4.

I don't have a clear stat to see the actual WR of the UTT2 sadly tho.


The nerf was from 16 damage to 14 damage with accuracy adjustment, so their DPS stayed the same only the snipe part was removed. So your analogy with grens is wrong. And they not only dominated 3v3/4v4 but also was cheesed to spam infantry sections, not buy weapon upgrades and snipe models left and right with a massive blob that was never meant to happen.


jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 14:19 PMleithianz

This is the actual feeling that I got from this forum. They just hate the faction itself, that they don't care about the balance.


Hate for the British faction is well justified tho. It was such an abomination at the release and it took several patches to bring them to their current kind-of underpowered state. There are massive bad things about their design and Relic is simply not allowing the balance team to fix those by making them more similar to other factions.
EDIT : Such as IS not having snares,Vickers killing stuff so fast that it can't do its actual job of suppressing, UC carrier being virtually uncounterable for 1-3 minutes, emplacements still being allowed to brace and be built in the blink of an eye etc.


Even then, the faction is super tedious to play against in any team game even though they are slightly underpowered because the extra player covers the weaknesses of the British roster and you are left to deal with still retarded emplacements.


Grens are finally good.
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Jilet
23 Apr 2021, 23:11 PM
#53
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 23:08 PMJilet


The nerf was from 16 damage to 14 damage with accuracy adjustment, so their DPS stayed the same only the snipe part was removed. So your analogy with grens is wrong. And they not only dominated 3v3/4v4 but also was cheesed to spam infantry sections, not buy weapon upgrades and snipe models left and right with a massive blob that was never meant to happen.




Hate for the British faction is well justified tho. It was such an abomination at the release and it took several patches to bring them to their current kind-of underpowered state. There are massive bad things about their design and Relic is simply not allowing the balance team to fix those by making them more similar to other factions.
EDIT : Such as IS not having snares, UC carrier being virtually uncounterable for 1-3 minutes, Vickers killing stuff so fast that it can't do its actual job of suppressing, emplacements still being allowed to brace and be built in the blink of an eye etc.


Even then, the faction is super tedious to play against in any team game even though they are slightly underpowered because the extra player covers the weaknesses of the British roster and you are left to deal with still retarded emplacements.


Grens are finally good.
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Grumpy
24 Apr 2021, 11:26 AM
#54
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 06:39 AMKiwiBirb
When I look at UKF their design is super interesting to me, as instead of a generalist light vehicle (like AA HT, 222, Luchs, T70) you get an AT focused vehicle (AEC) plus a fuel cost infantry upgrade (bolster).

UKF's late game unit roster is pretty good.

The thing is, agressive light vehicle play is very dominant in high rank play, and that is not possible with the AEC. and bolster doesnt fully make up for that I guess.

Either buff the bolster power spike (but somehow maintain late game performace) or give AEC some anti infantry buff?

IDK someone who is good at the game should tell me if im being dumb


I think part of the problem is that the UKF's mid game is mostly just the AEC. When the AEC is too good, people go double AEC and it is really frustrating to play against. When it is UP, UKF suffers badly as it doesn't have other options.
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Grumpy
24 Apr 2021, 11:49 AM
#55
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2021, 17:57 PMFlyingsmonster
If you play 4v4 allies right now the one thing that is glaringly apparent is how bad UKF players are on average. Of all allied factions I've played with, UKF players are always the worst players on the team, and this is a combination of the faction being very bad in team games right now, combined with low player skill as well. It's not that UKF can't work, a skilled player can do well with them IF they know what they're doing, but most players simply aren't skilled and playing a faction like UKF which is the worst in the game right now makes a bad player even worse.

Every game I play with a more than 1 UKF player tends to go badly, they just suffer so much manpower bleed and I hardly ever see them with a positive k/d. I cringe when I have a team in 4v4 of me (playing soviet or USF) with 3 UKF teammates, it's almost not even worth playing especially since lower ranked players like to spam emplacements that will just get destroyed a few minutes after they're built.


I agree about UKF players often being the worst on random teams. The problem is that there are so few players that play a lot of UKF. It makes the player's rank improve just by spamming games at a 46% (roughly) win rate.

I'm not so sure about the manpower bleed. I'm really inconsistent in my gameplay but when I'm playing okay, I usually have a positive KD as UKF. The problem I see when playing with randoms is that they usually build emplacements way too early (like fourth unit) and way too aggressive (either covering a vp with a bofors or putting a mortar pit so that it autofires well past the vp). The problem then becomes that they've lost too much and are always outnumbered in fights, not that there is something inherently wrong with Sections.
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Applejack
25 Apr 2021, 08:30 AM
#56
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 359

Interesting how 3v3 looks pretty balanced in terms of winrate. I wonder why.

Time to start queuing for 3v3s
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mrgame2
25 Apr 2021, 10:17 AM
#57
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

i believe hate is not a proper word to use.

imo usf and sov are more fun for players to pick and learn.

ukf faction performance is really good, but less fun to use.
it is more reactive than pro-active for most parts.

it has less commanders, less bulletins, less arty and rockets. call in avre and croc are less fun. churchill and ff have less aggression to attack. now it is mostly pop cap restrained.

players try to pick valentine for earlier aggressive plays?
the recent aec and cromwell buffs, should it a try too, if you want aggression?


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Reverb
29 Apr 2021, 17:22 PM
#58
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 319

Is there a way to calculate win rates with a sliding scale to account for the discrepancy in total number of players per faction?

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frostbite
29 Apr 2021, 23:16 PM
#59
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

im not going to lie. the last 3 months i been talking about how brits are the worst amry at the moment. they have no real anti infantry. cruiser is to slow... no armor and dont kill stuff fast no more...all arty is doctrinal. land matress and sexton. land matress sucks. tanks attack land matresses weapon every time no the units carrying it so it always dies in 2-3 shots no matter wat cuz of its size. sextons got a little better... they still suck ppl move after first shell if if that dont kill anything u wasting ur time barraging. avre is doctrinal. its pretty good. i wish it had smokes but that might make it op. croc is 12cp...takes way to long to fiend.. cost wayyy to god dang much... its main gun shoots half the speed of a cromwell and flame thrower dont get kills vs good players its just used for damaging atm.

you have to spend tons of resources on things like upgrades just to use a unit or emplacement that can be countered very easy. aec has NO like AT ALL anti infantry anymore. the only thing brits have really is snipers. and that was nerfed. brens do ok but double and u have no anti tank.

brits should not have to buy upgrades on bofors or aec
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Spoof
1 May 2021, 22:28 PM
#60
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

Why can't we just make Brits a normal faction already? It's always the Brits and their stupid faction design fucking up the meta somehow.
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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » CoH2 statistics of top200 ONLY.

SHOUT IT OUT!

No ProfanityNumber of ShoutsRefresh Shout Box
Lady Xenarra: @Willy Pete The lack of April Fools this year is odd lol
Yesterday, 01:34 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone not dead yet. when that happens the font will switch to Papyrus :*(
Yesterday, 00:16 AM
dasheepeh: it was an honor guys :guyokay:
Last Tuesday, 20:34 PM
aerafield: yeah I already prepared my "Can't believe there's comic mode for the 10 daily visitors even on this April 1st" :guyokay:
Last Tuesday, 20:29 PM
Rosbone: @dasheepeh I guess that means this site is officially dead :guyokay:
Last Tuesday, 20:19 PM
dasheepeh: no comic sans font for april 1st this year?
Last Tuesday, 19:56 PM
Willy Pete: @Lady Xenarra this you? https://i.imgflip.com/3e4thi.jpg
Last Tuesday, 02:53 AM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
Last Tuesday, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy :clap:
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Soheil: Coh2 still broken server ?
25 Mar 2025, 18:27 PM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. :snfQuinn:.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Willy Pete: @Nickbn you didn't ask a question, and this is a chat box...
20 Mar 2025, 13:11 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: #RelicModdedEchoChamber
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
webdesign-muenchen-w: @Rosbone it is sick
14 Mar 2025, 22:09 PM
aerafield: @adamírcz aren't the first two disconnects free every day?
14 Mar 2025, 19:26 PM
Rosbone: It is so unlike Relic to punish its fans and community.
14 Mar 2025, 12:07 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: Just making mistake after mistake after mistake.
13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: For a thing they could fix in minutes. Literally minutes.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: + 33% dmg rear hit was best deal ever.
12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
theekvn: you rather go 76 to unity Whizbang 2.0 or go home.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: Whizbang lock behind CP, meanwhile stuka is techtree progress
12 Mar 2025, 03:51 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
06 Mar 2025, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
Soheil: Coh2 is dead , full of map hackers , and lelic knows that but ...
04 Mar 2025, 01:26 AM
aerafield: Oh how I missed the weird spam bots, welcome back :banana:
03 Mar 2025, 13:05 PM
situsgbo777: Platform game online terpercaya dengan berbagai pilihan permainan seru dan peluang menang besar. Nikmati pengalaman bermain terbaik hanya di GBO777
03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield that does sound familiar
02 Mar 2025, 09:06 AM
aerafield: @Lady Xenarra :rofl:
02 Mar 2025, 01:45 AM

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