Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback
22 Apr 2021, 02:54 AM
#441
Posts: 4928
On Partisans: I don't see why Partisans need to buy their PPSh's when Stormtroopers get their MP 40's for free. Partisans have a very similar role and their new upgrades closely mirror Stormtroopers, but they have to pay a heck of a lot more and don't have even half as much punch.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Apr 2021, 05:18 AM
#442
Posts: 1563
On Partisans: I don't see why Partisans need to buy their PPSh's when Stormtroopers get their MP 40's for free. Partisans have a very similar role and their new upgrades closely mirror Stormtroopers, but they have to pay a heck of a lot more and don't have even half as much punch.they get a 5th man while stormtroopers do not.
22 Apr 2021, 05:55 AM
#443
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Buff Partysans and bring back sniper in an m3(doctrinal)
Just do it
Just do it
22 Apr 2021, 06:54 AM
#444
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
they get a 5th man while stormtroopers do not.
On the other hand, stormtroopers do not lose to engineers badly and are actually viable as 4 man.
I have very mixed feelings about partisans, their call-in impact was completely neutered in favor of making them better long term investment, but if I wanted long term investment, new assault guards do pretty much the same thing while performing exponentially better at it and partisans still have unsustainable bleed when engaged by anything.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Apr 2021, 07:09 AM
#445
Posts: 1563
On the other hand, stormtroopers do not lose to engineers badly and are actually viable as 4 man.
They cost less than Osttruppen bro. If you think this is some kind viable point of argument then I suggest you see a good psychiatrics or go to school.
Also 4-man smg partisans beat the living crap out of pioneers so they are not that unviable.
I have very mixed feelings about partisans, their call-in impact was completely neutered in favor of making them better long term investment, but if I wanted long term investment, new assault guards do pretty much the same thing while performing exponentially better at it and partisans still have unsustainable bleed when engaged by anything.
I get what you mean. But doesn't this point kinda contradict your first point.
22 Apr 2021, 09:47 AM
#446
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
I have very mixed feelings about partisans, their call-in impact was completely neutered in favor of making them better long term investment, but if I wanted long term investment, new assault guards do pretty much the same thing while performing exponentially better at it and partisans still have unsustainable bleed when engaged by anything.
While I second the sentiment that Soviets do not need Partisans as yet another PPSh combat unit, the comparison with Assault Guards is completely off the mark. They are functionally very different units.
22 Apr 2021, 09:55 AM
#447
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
While I second the sentiment that Soviets do not need Partisans as yet another PPSh combat unit, the comparison with Assault Guards is completely off the mark. They are functionally very different units.
At the moment they both have low initial impact, require specialized CQC AI or AT upgrade and go from there.
General purpose is the same.
Application of that role differs with one being cheap ambusher and other operating more frontally.
Being completely impotent on spawn, partisans might just as well no longer be infiltration units.
I did mix ass guards with airborne guards in my mid tho and briefly thought former got the camo when stationary, when its the addition of that to latter.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Apr 2021, 10:10 AM
#448
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
At the moment they both have low initial impact, require specialized CQC AI or AT upgrade and go from there.
General purpose is the same.
Application of that role differs with one being cheap ambusher and other operating more frontally.
Being completely impotent on spawn, partisans might just as well no longer be infiltration units.
I did mix ass guards with airborne guards in my mid tho and briefly thought former got the camo when stationary, when its the addition of that to latter.
One has camo (even the elite version), the other one has not. That's a huge difference in use. That's the only reason why Stormtroopers and Commandos work properly, otherwise they would be quite bad. PPShs also don't exactly offer mid range DPS.
Stormtroopers have also been neutered on spawn, yet they are not a bad squad.
22 Apr 2021, 10:20 AM
#449
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
One has camo (even the elite version), the other one has not. That's a huge difference in use. That's the only reason why Stormtroopers and Commandos work properly, otherwise they would be quite bad. PPShs also don't exactly offer mid range DPS.
Hence my clarification in last line.
Stormtroopers have also been neutered on spawn, yet they are not a bad squad.
Storms don't exactly have to pay(not that big of an issue tho) for their MP40s and don't need to retreat to reinforce to get to full potential.
Storms MP40s also upgrade faster then partisans PPSH.
There isn't much use for an infiltration unit that starts without weapons and needs to retreat to get all models back.
This is why new partisans(AI variant) is completely confusing to me, there is no reason to ever get them out through infiltration if there is no M5 around and they bleed as much as they always have.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Apr 2021, 10:35 AM
#450
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Hence my clarification in last line.
You still can't close in with them, Partisans can be a very offensive squad.
Storms don't exactly have to pay(not that big of an issue tho) for their MP40s and don't need to retreat to reinforce to get to full potential.
There isn't much use for an infiltration unit that starts without weapons and needs to retreat to get all models back.
This is why new partisans(AI variant) is completely confusing to me, there is no reason to ever get them out through infiltration if there is no M5 around and they bleed as much as they always have.
That's why Partisans are still dirt cheap and you don't need to pay munitions for any ability to get the most out of the ambush.
But I agree with you last points. If Partisans really stay like this, they probably need some further adjustments. Although with the addition of the fifth man they overall don't look THAT much different from commandos regarding EHP (considering reinforcement costs) and usage in the late game.
All in all Partisans should be a totally different squad. They should be able to enable the brute force attack that Soviets do, not be part of it.
22 Apr 2021, 10:47 AM
#451
Posts: 5279
I'd see a bit more utility in partisans instead of combat buffs. I wonder if it would be possible to create a salvage system for munitions that functions a bit like interrogation tactics on dead infantry to help feed the machine
More mines would also be a fun route.
They arnt supposed to fight outright but instead be a real pain in the ass.
Another idea would be to add a damage reduction or target size reduction to their camo bonus to when they to get the junp on an enemy they don't just melt away
More mines would also be a fun route.
They arnt supposed to fight outright but instead be a real pain in the ass.
Another idea would be to add a damage reduction or target size reduction to their camo bonus to when they to get the junp on an enemy they don't just melt away
#stalinwept
22 Apr 2021, 11:03 AM
#452
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
I'd see a bit more utility in partisans instead of combat buffs. I wonder if it would be possible to create a salvage system for munitions that functions a bit like interrogation tactics on dead infantry to help feed the machine
More mines would also be a fun route.
They arnt supposed to fight outright but instead be a real pain in the ass.
Another idea would be to add a damage reduction or target size reduction to their camo bonus to when they to get the junp on an enemy they don't just melt away
+1
I would also be happy if their design moved away from a camo shock unit (Soviets don't need this type of unit, their whole design is durability and outlasting the opponent, not a glass cannon burst). Partisans should be a high utility and low damage unit. At the very least even in the current design, they should spawn with improved target size (and less veterancy bonus) so that vet0 Partisans are not as bad. This would also allow them to be rebuildable in the late game. A late game vet0 Partisan will just be deleted if it has to face upgraded vet2-3 units. Especially if they are supposed to shoot from point blank.
22 Apr 2021, 11:14 AM
#453
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
Buff Partysans and bring back sniper in an m3(doctrinal)
Just do it
5men PPsH partisans not enuff? D:
22 Apr 2021, 11:21 AM
#454
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
But I agree with you last points. If Partisans really stay like this, they probably need some further adjustments. Although with the addition of the fifth man they overall don't look THAT much different from commandos regarding EHP (considering reinforcement costs) and usage in the late game.
All in all Partisans should be a totally different squad. They should be able to enable the brute force attack that Soviets do, not be part of it.
Have you seen vet 2 Partisans attacking out of camouflage with their free +50% accuracy? They can melt through vet 3 panzergrens if caught off-guard. And they also can throw a frag nade out of camouflage, stormtroopers can't
22 Apr 2021, 11:44 AM
#455
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Have you seen vet 2 Partisans attacking out of camouflage with their free +50% accuracy? They can melt through vet 3 panzergrens if caught off-guard. And they also can throw a frag nade out of camouflage, stormtroopers can't
Yes, that is fully fine. I personally still had the feeling that Partisans will bleed you heavily. I could not test the 5-men version in the mod in detail yet.
My main concern is more that their design should be different.
Soviets have tons of PPSh/CQC options already
- durable brute force squad with Shocks
- cheap economy squad with PPSh Cons
- ambush PPSh airborne guards
- close-mid range Thompson assault guards
These squads already cover almost all niches you can think of when it comes to CQC types. Do they now really need an aggressive ambush bursting unit? Making Partisans a combat squad is probably the easiest, but probably also the most boring solution.
22 Apr 2021, 11:53 AM
#456
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
Why not make it so that the Partisans can be reorganized into a regular infantry unit when they retreat to the base? When the partisans met with the regular troops, they were usually poured into the regular rifle units. My idea is that the partisans get the Conscripts skin, change the veterancy ability, maybe even a 5-man squad, but for example with two DP-27 or MG-42/34.
22 Apr 2021, 13:53 PM
#457
Posts: 5279
Why not make it so that the Partisans can be reorganized into a regular infantry unit when they retreat to the base? When the partisans met with the regular troops, they were usually poured into the regular rifle units. My idea is that the partisans get the Conscripts skin, change the veterancy ability, maybe even a 5-man squad, but for example with two DP-27 or MG-42/34.
I wouldn't change the skin, but you could slap merge into them perhaps... That may be interesting....
Side note, what about some field reinforcement JUST for partisans? Something akin to pathfinder beacon that only reinforces airborne for the spartisans? Could give them cheaper reinforcement if the beacon is in enemy territory to reinforce that they are resisting enemy occupation and their role therein
That would allow them to stay behind enemy lines a bugger shit up.
Also in campaign they could create blinds that let em set up ambushes... That would be a huge bonus to them as well...
#stalinwept
22 Apr 2021, 13:57 PM
#458
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
I wouldn't change the skin, but you could slap merge into them perhaps... That may be interesting....
Side note, what about some field reinforcement JUST for partisans? Something akin to pathfinder beacon that only reinforces airborne for the spartisans?
That would allow them to stay behind enemy lines a bugger shit up.
Also in campaign they could create blinds that let em set up ambushes... That would be a huge bonus to them as well...
Even with a merge, a skin replacement is needed. The partisans did not fight in their civilian or uninsigned uniforms in the regular army, but received a standard uniform.
22 Apr 2021, 14:20 PM
#459
Posts: 5279
Even with a merge, a skin replacement is needed. The partisans did not fight in their civilian or uninsigned uniforms in the regular army, but received a standard uniform.
Meh. I t would be more immersion breaking to watch them snap their fingers and change their uniform in the middle of a battle than to see them wearing civies
#stalinwept
22 Apr 2021, 20:15 PM
#460
Posts: 4928
My suggestions for Partisans are:
Numbers 1-3 will provide a lot of utility, while #4 is just for fun. Merge could be interesting but it wouldn't be the most useful thing because their squad is still smaller than the usual and the risk of accidentally merging is higher than with Conscripts.
- Give them a resource stealing ability like the Funkwagen from Panzer Elite.
- Allow them to reinforce in the field somehow.
- Grant them the Salvage ability.
- +1 Sturmpioneer StG at Vet 3.
Numbers 1-3 will provide a lot of utility, while #4 is just for fun. Merge could be interesting but it wouldn't be the most useful thing because their squad is still smaller than the usual and the risk of accidentally merging is higher than with Conscripts.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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